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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 03 Jul 2011 (Sunday) 11:13
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Is Canon subtly abusing the EF-S mount?

 
absplastic
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Jul 03, 2011 11:13 |  #1

Looking at my EF-S 60mm f/2.8, I can see that the rear element does not extend backwards enough to warrant the EF-S mount for reasons of preventing physical glass-to-mirror collision. I should be able to use this on my D60 (or a 10D, 20D, D30, 30D, etc.. if I had one of those as a backup body), but it won't fit without some warranty-voiding machining.

This makes me think that the only reason the 60mm macro has the EF-S mount it to drive people to get newer bodies. It seems to me that it would have more customer-friendly to those with older bodies to give this lens the EF mount and some new letters in the name (like EF-C or something) to indicate that it's for crop-sensors only so that full-frame users don't buy it and get surprised by dark corners due to the small image circle, but without physically restricting use on pre-EFS crop bodies.


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dissident
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Jul 03, 2011 11:15 |  #2

I'd just like to see a good cheap 35mm or 28mm prime from them in the EF-S mount. Something like Nikon's 35mm F/1.8 at the same price point that has as good of optics. They're able to put out some pretty decent glass at good prices in this mount (kit lens 18-55 IS for example) as is Nikon.


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absplastic
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Jul 03, 2011 13:14 |  #3

I'd be fine with a cheap 35mm or 28mm with reduced, crop-sensor image circle, my point was that I don't think It should use the EF-S mount because that would only unnecessarily make it not backwards compatible.


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Jul 03, 2011 13:37 |  #4

absplastic wrote in post #12697628 (external link)
Looking at my EF-S 60mm f/2.8, I can see that the rear element does not extend backwards enough to warrant the EF-S mount for reasons of preventing physical glass-to-mirror collision. I should be able to use this on my D60 (or a 10D, 20D, D30, 30D, etc.. if I had one of those as a backup body), but it won't fit without some warranty-voiding machining.

This makes me think that the only reason the 60mm macro has the EF-S mount it to drive people to get newer bodies. It seems to me that it would have more customer-friendly to those with older bodies to give this lens the EF mount and some new letters in the name (like EF-C or something) to indicate that it's for crop-sensors only so that full-frame users don't buy it and get surprised by dark corners due to the small image circle, but without physically restricting use on pre-EFS crop bodies.

??? You can use this lens on a whole host of bodies, like the 20D, 30D, 40D, 50D, 60D, the rebel line, and the 7D. Perhaps you don't understand which bodies accept the EFS mount.

Also just because your mirror doesn't hit the back of the lens, doesn't mean the others won't like the APS-H bodies and FF bodies. Their mirrors are larger.


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Jul 03, 2011 14:20 |  #5

The whole point of EF-S is that it is designed for the smaller sized sensor, thus it does not need as much glass, thus it keeps the cost down. If the 60mm were redesigned for FF, it would need more glass, thus it would end up being more expensive.


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sandpiper
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Jul 03, 2011 14:31 |  #6

absplastic wrote in post #12697628 (external link)
Looking at my EF-S 60mm f/2.8, I can see that the rear element does not extend backwards enough to warrant the EF-S mount for reasons of preventing physical glass-to-mirror collision. I should be able to use this on my D60 (or a 10D, 20D, D30, 30D, etc.. if I had one of those as a backup body), but it won't fit without some warranty-voiding machining.

Well, it will fit on the 20D and 30D anyway, as those can take the EF-S lenses. There aren't a lot of the older bodies still in use (relatively speaking) as they are now about 8 years old or older and many will have succumbed to faults which weren't worth fixing due to the age of the body. I would also imagine that there were far fewer made than later crop bodies, as earlier digital cameras were much more expensive than modern ones. Many users will have bought a range of lenses before EF-S came along, others will have bought more modern bodies as upgrades and the older bodies are just backups and will have the original lenses bought for it anyway.

Yes, I can see your point, and I am sure that there will be some users who would like to be able to use crop lenses on those old bodies. However, if they were to make them as a third type of lens, EF-C as you suggest, it would cause confusion amongst new users, some of whom already have trouble coping with the differences between EF and EF-S.

The numbers involved probably just don't make it worth while for canon, also if they were to be made with an EF mount but labelled EF-C, they might clear the mirror on the 10D etc., but will they clear it on a 5D? The reason for a physically different mount, is to stop people putting them on FF cameras by mistake and causing damage. Simply sticking an EF-C label on it won't stop everybody (I've seen posts from people who have bought Canon FD lenses and wondered why they won't fit their DSLR).




  
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Jul 03, 2011 16:37 |  #7

You also have to realize that (at least to my understanding) the EF-s 60mm was made to give those with crop sensors a 100mm equivalent macro lens.

If I owned a FF body I wanted 100mm equivalent I would just get the EF 100mm macro lens. Or I'd I wanted something less I'd get the EF 50mm macro.




  
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Jul 03, 2011 17:36 as a reply to  @ gremlin75's post |  #8

So, no, there is no abuse.

You can now go and buy most of the previous generation of Canon DSLRs and use your EF-S lens.


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Jul 03, 2011 17:50 |  #9

absplastic wrote in post #12697628 (external link)
I should be able to use this on my D60 (or a 10D, 20D, D30, 30D, etc.. if I had one of those as a backup body), but it won't fit without some warranty-voiding machining.

Are you talking about the D60 or the 60D?


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Jul 03, 2011 18:25 |  #10

krb wrote in post #12699123 (external link)
Are you talking about the D60 or the 60D?

I presume that he means the D60 as that only takes EF lenses, he says it is his back up camera so I presume the 60D in his gear list is his main camera, and the one he bought the EF-S lens for. He states that the lens won't fit his back up, so it must be a D60 not a 60D.




  
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Jul 03, 2011 18:40 |  #11

sandpiper wrote in post #12699250 (external link)
I presume that he means the D60 as that only takes EF lenses, he says it is his back up camera so I presume the 60D in his gear list is his main camera, and the one he bought the EF-S lens for. He states that the lens won't fit his back up, so it must be a D60 not a 60D.

He also states that it won't fit a 20D or 30D so we obviously cannot take everything he says at face value.


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Jul 03, 2011 18:58 as a reply to  @ krb's post |  #12

Well. Sony and nikon in DT and DX configurations are mountable on their full frame cameras...


So canon's move was INTENTIONAL.

Also the full frame canon mirror is the same as the APS-H mirror.

Interesting factoid/really pisses me off: nikon 17-55 has weather sealing. Canons has image stabilization.


Nikons 17-55 mounts on their 35mm dSLRs.

Canon: Ohh you can't do that!!


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Jul 03, 2011 19:04 |  #13

Well if you know these things going into a Canon purchase, I am not sure how you could get mad after the fact? It would be like me buying my Z06 and trying to drive it in the dead of winter, getting mad at Chevy that the car was rear-wheel drive and had 405 hp.


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Jul 03, 2011 19:10 |  #14

krb wrote in post #12699284 (external link)
He also states that it won't fit a 20D or 30D so we obviously cannot take everything he says at face value.

True, but he doesn't have those cameras so is going on what he (mistakenly) believes.

He states that he has a D60 and the EF-S lens won't fit it, which it clearly would if he had two 60Ds. I mean, it fits his main camera and not his back up, he states he has a D60 and his gear list shows a 60D. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I am prepared to accept what he has stated he owns.

If he only owned 60D bodies, this thread moaning that the EF-S lens won't fit his older crop body, wouldn't make much sense. It only makes sense if he has the (EF only) D60.




  
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Jul 03, 2011 19:17 |  #15

sandpiper wrote in post #12699380 (external link)
True, but he doesn't have those cameras so is going on what he (mistakenly) believes.

He states that he has a D60 and the EF-S lens won't fit it, which it clearly would if he had two 60Ds. I mean, it fits his main camera and not his back up, he states he has a D60 and his gear list shows a 60D. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I am prepared to accept what he has stated he owns.

If he only owned 60D bodies, this thread moaning that the EF-S lens won't fit his older crop body, wouldn't make much sense. It only makes sense if he has the (EF only) D60.

Here is the cheap fix, just sell the D60 and get a 20D, a lot less heartburn, the lens will now fit, and he will have a more modern capable camera. :)


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Is Canon subtly abusing the EF-S mount?
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