Canon EF 800mm f/5.6L IS USM

Not to question you in a disrespectful way but what got you to buy a 800mm IS when you already have a 600mm IS?

On FM there was a lengthy discussion of the merits of the 600mm IS II + Series III Extender 1.4x over the 800mm IS to the point that one fella claimes that the new 600mm will cannibalize the 800mm's sales.

dolina wrote in post #12609947
Not to question you in a disrespectful way but what got you to buy a 800mm IS when you already have a 600mm IS?

On FM there was a lengthy discussion of the merits of the 600mm IS II + Series III Extender 1.4x over the 800mm IS to the point that one fella claimes that the new 600mm will cannibalize the 800mm's sales.

I think even the new 400L f/2.8 will cannibalize the 600L and 800L sales. The 400L with the 1.4/2.0 III extender is sharper than current 600L and 800L ! And now is lighter...the 600L *might* have a better chance than the 800L, since it is sharper...REALLY sharper that previous 600L and with the 1.4 ext it is STILL sharper than 800L. This is based off the charts on Canon's web site.

I see nothing wrong with your question. In short, just how handy is the lens.

I know that on a specification list there's only a small weight loss for the 800 over my 600mm L f4 IS (not the new II version, which will be lighter), but somehow the balance and the perceived weight seems much better. I intend to sell the 600 if I become completely satisfied with the 800. I also will be selling my old version 1 400mm L f2.8 as it is also very heavy. My 1D Mark III and 1Ds Mark III will probably go on the block, too, since the 5D2 does what I want for full-frame.

Of late, I've had more problems with my back and I decided to try to lighten the load.

I'm already happy with how much closer I can get with just the 800mm lens. After making some exposure adjustments and more test shots, I'll try the two TC IIIs on it. The refurbished 1D4 seems pretty damn good, especially at 1600 and 3200 ISO.

This one was on auto ISO at 1250, program mode at 1/320s @ f5.6. Really, I'm getting a tingle up my leg!

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Thanks for your thoughts Chuck.

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So, today I took out the 1.4X TC III and the 12 and 25mm extension tubes. Still checking out the 1D4, too.
Put all that and the 800mm on a gimbal head and tripod. Hot as you know what out, but I spent an hour waiting for some bird action--but there wasn't much. The contrast, color and EV of shots were adjusted to my taste, but no noise or sharpening applied.

With the spacers, just testing the setup. ISO640, 1/320s @ f8, 1120mm

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I still haven't put it on a tripod. I took the lens with me to North Carolina where I was attending a family reunion. One of my relatives had set up a bluebird box and had a couple of parent birds constantly bringing bugs and worms to their unseen brood. These are all cropped, even if taken with a TC III.

1D4, 800mm L, ISO 200, 1/320s at f 8, minus .33 Ev.

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dolina wrote in post #8935305
80% it is enough ....
I would love to see Canon make an EF 1200mm f/8L IS lens with 6 or more stops of IS that weighs less than 6kg. But we'd have to wait for a 1D body that can do AF @ f/8 and f/11 AF at the center. Price would be $15-20k?

the camera would be $15-20k? or the lens? Of the above mentioned, I'd reckon the lens to cost $100,000 or more.

mikewinburn wrote in post #12729585
the camera would be $15-20k? or the lens? Of the above mentioned, I'd reckon the lens to cost $100,000 or more.

Lens would be 15-20k. Price is wholly dependent on the diameter of the entrance pupil.

dolina wrote in post #12729616
Lens would be 15-20k. Price is wholly dependent on the diameter of the entrance pupil.

agreed... but i'm factoring in the "Canon Unecessarily High Price, Just because we can" factor.

Look at the 1200 5.6 NO IS! ... $120,000 USD... just because they can. I doubt they'd drop the price 75% for one stop and adding a high quality IS system.

review of current 1200mm
http://www.the-digital-picture.com ….6-L-USM-Lens-Review.aspx

The brand new price was $95,000 back in 1993. IS on any of the white glass came about in 1999.

Price went up on the secondary market as it was discontinued.

Entrance pupil of the 1200/5.6 was 214.3mm

Entrance pupil of the 1200/8.0 would be 150mm

Entrance pupil of the 600/4.0 is 150mm

Entrance pupil of the 800/5.6 is 142.9mm

Entrance pupil of the 400/2.8 is 142.9mm

400mm IS I price is $8,000

400mm IS II price is $10,500

600mm IS I price is $9,200

600mm IS II price is $12,000.

800mm IS price is $13,000

This is where I base the $15,000-20,000 estimate.

Lens price is based on how large the optical elements they need to grow in their plants. The focal length is a secondary influence when it comes to price.

This also applies to the shorter white primes as well.

200/2 IS is $6,000 and 100mm wide entrance pupil

300/2.8 IS is $4,879 and 107.1mm wide entrance pupil

300/2.8 IS II is $6,599 and 107.1mm wide entrance pupil

400/4 DO IS is $6,469 and 100mm wide entrance pupil

So a theoretical 600/5.6 IS would be 107.1mm wide entrance pupil with a price of say $7,000-8,000.

mikewinburn wrote in post #12729702
agreed... but i'm factoring in the "Canon Unecessarily High Price, Just because we can" factor.

Look at the 1200 5.6 NO IS! ... $120,000 USD... just because they can. I doubt they'd drop the price 75% for one stop and adding a high quality IS system.

review of current 1200mm
http://www.the-digital-picture.com ….6-L-USM-Lens-Review.aspx

dolina wrote in post #12729965
The brand new price was $95,000 back in 1993. IS on any of the white glass came about in 1999.

Price went up on the secondary market as it was discontinued.

1200/5.6 214.3mm Entrance pupil (EP) $95,000

1200/8.0 150mm EP: price: $15,000-20,000 (Theoretical)
600/4.0 150mm EP /600mm IS I : $9,200
600/4.0 150mm EP /600mm IS II: $12,000.
800/5.6 142.9mm EP/ 800mm IS price is $13,000
400/2.8 142.9mm EP/ 400mm IS I price: $8,000
400/2.8 142.9mm EP/ 400mm IS II price: $10,500
....
300/2.8 IS 107.1mm wide EP: price: $4,879
300/2.8 IS II 107.1mm wide EP: price: $6,599
600/5.6 IS 107.1mm wide EP: price: $7,000-8,000 (Theoretical).
400/4.0 DO IS 100mm wide EP: price: $6,469
200/2 IS 100mm wide EP: price: $6,000

fantastic information, indeed! let's hope it could indeed come to fruition at such a reasonably low price.

But for the life of me, I can't really see why in this case as its clear that as the EP increases, cost increases proportionately, and with each iteration of the lens, costs also increase proportionately, but when it comes to the 1200 214EP, the cost is not proporately priced... its exponentially priced! With only 20 or so made (?)

I would suspect while logically a 1200 8.0 150EP should be $15-20k (reasonable), the reason for the exponential cost of the 1200 5.6 would still allow Canon to release the newer version with a $100,000 price tag.... just because they can

excellent presentation of the facts, Dolina!

I went out to try and get a shuttle launch image--terrible overcast sky, I only had a brief glimpse of the shuttle and got one soft snap before it was hidden by clouds. On the other hand it gave me a chance to practice with the 800mm and the 1.4X TC III on a tripod and gimbal. Thank goodness that pelicans fly low and slow or I wouldn't have got this: ISO 800, 1/2000s @ f11.

Dolphins were at play but always dived by the time I got the lens in place. Very frustrating.

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As the entrance pupil increases so does the difficulty of producing them within quality tolerance. This is similar to how the price of flat TVs increases as the screen size increases, you are basically paying for their mistakes.

It takes about a year to grow optical elements the size needed for the 1200/5.6 and that was back in 1993 a full decade before EOS Digital Rebels came about.

Sigma's 200-500/2.8 is $26,000 with an entrance pupil of 178.6mm. Not exactly the same as the 1200/5.6 but you can see that price does increase as the millimeters piles on.

mikewinburn wrote in post #12730723
fantastic information, indeed! let's hope it could indeed come to fruition at such a reasonably low price.

But for the life of me, I can't really see why in this case as its clear that as the EP increases, cost increases proportionately, and with each iteration of the lens, costs also increase proportionately, but when it comes to the 1200 214EP, the cost is not proporately priced... its exponentially priced! With only 20 or so made (?)

I would suspect while logically a 1200 8.0 150EP should be $15-20k (reasonable), the reason for the exponential cost of the 1200 5.6 would still allow Canon to release the newer version with a $100,000 price tag.... just because they can

excellent presentation of the facts, Dolina!