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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 12 Apr 2009 (Sunday) 16:35
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6,560 FLASH POPS LATER: The Results of "AA" Rechargeable Battery Tests

 
tim
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May 11, 2011 23:39 |  #316

anthony11 wrote in post #12393582 (external link)
Curiously, my eneloops perform better than my Powerex 2700's.

"Perform" is subjective, and how did you measure your results?


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May 12, 2011 02:30 |  #317

I didn't say that I measure them. The eneloops give more pops with faster recharges.


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May 12, 2011 06:14 |  #318

anthony11 wrote in post #12394242 (external link)
The eneloops give more pops with faster recharges.

The only way that's possible is that your Powerex wasn't charged shortly before the use, i.e., it's been sitting "on shelf" for awhile.



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anthony11
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May 12, 2011 11:13 |  #319

SYS wrote in post #12394686 (external link)
The only way that's possible is that your Powerex wasn't charged shortly before the use, i.e., it's been sitting "on shelf" for awhile.

Perhaps you live in a different reality than the one I've experienced.


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May 12, 2011 12:04 |  #320

anthony11 wrote in post #12396137 (external link)
Perhaps you live in a different reality than the one I've experienced.

When it comes to battery performances between different products, we shouldn't make statements based on your "experience" or my "experience" or your "reality" and mine. If you don't provide your statements backed up by empirical evidence, then they're worthless, and even worse, misleading. If both Powerex and eneloop are tested immediately after being newly charged and under the exact same conditions, then there's no way eneloop can pop more flashes because Powerex has 600 more Mah.



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anthony11
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May 13, 2011 10:27 |  #321

SYS wrote in post #12396400 (external link)
When it comes to battery performances between different products, we shouldn't make statements based on your "experience" or my "experience" or your "reality" and mine. If you don't provide your statements backed up by empirical evidence, then they're worthless, and even worse, misleading. If both Powerex and eneloop are tested immediately after being newly charged and under the exact same conditions, then there's no way eneloop can pop more flashes because Powerex has 600 more Mah.

Dude, move out of that RDF. I make no claims about any other specific units than my own. Cell-to-cell variation. Age.


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May 13, 2011 10:51 |  #322

anthony11 wrote in post #12402622 (external link)
Cell-to-cell variation.

Exactly my point. You CAN'T compare a fast self-discharging cell (like Powerex 2700) that has been half drained without even you knowing it, say, with a low self-discharging cell (like eneloop) that's 100% full capacity. It's my suspicion that that's what you did, and if so, then you're of course right that eneloop gave you more flash pops than Powerex 2700. There's no other way, except for the unlikely case that your Powerex is defective. Even my 4th grade son who started this experiment with me understands this. To find out whether I'm right or not, all you have to do is to recharge both sets and test them right away and see for yourself. :)



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May 14, 2011 10:26 |  #323

For your interest, early this year I purchased both Powerex 2700s and Imedion 2400s from Thomas Distributing. I'm satisfied with the performance of both, though the difference of 300 Mah may not, in my particular use, justify carrying the two types. I will, of course, monitor advances in technology.

I expect to identify worn or defective batteries when charging with my Maha 9000. I don't, however, plan to report such events on this thread :).


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May 24, 2011 15:47 |  #324

Syl Arena's book Speedliter's Handbook supports OP's conclusions. Copyright 2011, so the testing is likely fairly recent. 24,000 pops, he says.


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May 24, 2011 19:02 |  #325

Meanderthal wrote in post #12471429 (external link)
Syl Arena's book Speedliter's Handbook supports OP's conclusions. Copyright 2011, so the testing is likely fairly recent. 24,000 pops, he says.

Interesting yet not surprising. ;) Although I got this book a couple months ago, I haven't gotten around to reading it. I didn't even know that he conducted his own battery test -- wow, 24,000 pops! That's...uh... 3.65X more pops than my "exhaustive" test... :) Thanks to you pointing this out, I had to pull the book off the shelf, blew some dust off of it, and read the section where he conducted the test. Apart from the fact that we both came to the same conclusions, I specifically would like to point out two additional tests of his that I've been also warning the forum members about for some time: 1) NiZn and 2) lithium batteries. I hope people -- if they read this book -- really pay attention to the section, "My Bad Experience with Nickel-Zinc," and how it damaged his 580EXII that ended up costing him $125 for the repair. Lithiums, too, are not what a lot of folks make out to be based on false information or impression. But, like him, I continue to be astounded by the number of folks who continue to use these type of batteries.



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Jul 18, 2011 19:29 |  #326

WOW! Have you tested the new Imedion batteries recently? If yes, what do you think compared to eneloops...


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Jul 19, 2011 13:30 |  #327

I performed my own testing last night (completely independent of the testing done here as I only just now found this thread). The tests were done with a video camera to "show" the results. And while not nearly as extensive as the testing you have done here, I believe my results corroborate your testing and results. You can view my blog/vlog here: http://blog.dterryphot​ography.com/2011/07/ba​ttery-shootout.html (external link)

I did discover that each of the "precharged" batteries (even the eneloops) arrived significantly depleted. I did not discover this until after my first round of testing.

After realizing this, and after charging up all of the batteries, I was amazed (shocked, really) to discover that the lower powered eneloops BEAT my 2900mAh batteries. Apparently recycle times are NOT all about the mAh ratings. (I learned something new last night and that's the best way to make scientific progress)

Thanks for your extensive efforts. I will add a comment to my blog with a link to your article so that anyone stumbling on my findings can learn even more through your extensive test results.


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Jul 19, 2011 19:18 |  #328

dwterry wrote in post #12786697 (external link)
I performed my own testing last night (completely independent of the testing done here as I only just now found this thread). The tests were done with a video camera to "show" the results. And while not nearly as extensive as the testing you have done here, I believe my results corroborate your testing and results. You can view my blog/vlog here: http://blog.dterryphot​ography.com/2011/07/ba​ttery-shootout.html (external link)

I did discover that each of the "precharged" batteries (even the eneloops) arrived significantly depleted. I did not discover this until after my first round of testing.

After realizing this, and after charging up all of the batteries, I was amazed (shocked, really) to discover that the lower powered eneloops BEAT my 2900mAh batteries. Apparently recycle times are NOT all about the mAh ratings. (I learned something new last night and that's the best way to make scientific progress)

Thanks for your extensive efforts. I will add a comment to my blog with a link to your article so that anyone stumbling on my findings can learn even more through your extensive test results.

I enjoyed reading your blog, and I'm glad that you tested ultimate lithiums, among others, and had the same conclusion about them that I had and warned others about in other posts. I likewise would recommend that no one uses these for their flashes.



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Jul 28, 2011 12:19 |  #329

SYS wrote in post #12781881 (external link)
No, I haven't. Without even testing them, though, I can tell you that the best battery technology currently available can't beat the original eneloop's low self-discharge (LSD). Not Imedion and not even the new eneloop. The best low self-discharge rate is stuck currently at 2000mAh. If anything goes higher in mAh, the LSD suffers. NOT all LSD-claiming batteries are equal. The original eneloop is still the LSD King.

Depends on intended use, though. I recharge unused batteries every two months. Without doing extensive testing, I expect that under these circumstances, my late-model Imedion 2400 will be more useful than an original-design, freshly charged Eneloop 2000.


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Jul 28, 2011 13:55 |  #330

Meanderthal wrote in post #12837906 (external link)
Depends on intended use, though. I recharge unused batteries every two months. Without doing extensive testing, I expect that under these circumstances, my late-model Imedion 2400 will be more useful than an original-design, freshly charged Eneloop 2000.

I was comparing the two brands strictly in the category of "LSD" and not in power. So if intended use is to get the most number of flash pops, then the batteries with the highest mAh would be a better choice. The only attractive thing about Imedion is that it offers a compromise between power and LSD. In doing so, however, it loses on power performance to those that offer higher mAh and loses on LSD performance to that of the original eneloop, albeit not by much. Again, the best thing about Imedion is its compromise between power and LSD, but you simply cannot have the best of both categories given the current battery engineering. As I stated many times in the past, I hope to see the day come when we can all have the power of Powerex 2700's with the true LSD of the original eneloops all rolled into one. But that won't happen soon...

EDIT: Upon re-reading your post, I think I may have misunderstood your statements. You bring up an interesting point. Under most circumstances, we tend to use our batteries within 1-3 months of recharging, and if ANY battery brand can retain 100% capacity during that time period, then the battery with the highest mAh, the fastest recycle time, and the most economical, would win.



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6,560 FLASH POPS LATER: The Results of "AA" Rechargeable Battery Tests
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