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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 18 Jul 2011 (Monday) 09:35
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APS-H Lens Question

 
JoeyC
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Jul 18, 2011 09:35 |  #1

Hello all - just bought a well cared for 1DMKII. This is my first time using a Canon - been shooting with a Sony A850 and A55 most recently, but wanted to give the infamous 1D autofocus a try. In the near future, I will probably use the 1D for portraits and youth sports. With my Sony gear covering my needs, I don't need to worry about a one size fits all solution with Canon.

The longer glass will come later, but I am trying to decide on a lens or two to get started for around $1K (give or take). I'm not thinking sports at the moment, but portraits - in the traditional sense, candid shots, and my favorite - environmental shots (where the wider solution would be important).

My original intention was to go with the 28mm F1.8 USM and 85mm F1.8 USM (I do tend to favor primes). I realize the 28mm needs to be stopped down slightly for optimal sharpness, but still usable at or near 1.8. These two give me some nice options for portraits right in my budget.

Then I was considering the 17-40/85 F1.8 combo. This obviously would allow me to go wider and have some flexibility with a zoom, but certainly at a loss for speed and probably bokeh.

My latest thought was a refub 24-70 F2.8. More of a simple, 1 lens solution. Not quite as fast as I'd like, but if it is sharp enough at F2.8, might be decent solution.

Any thoughts or considerations given my intention? Thanks.


Joe - SE Pennsylvania
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thestone11
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Jul 18, 2011 10:10 |  #2

the 24-70mm is an excellent lens, it is my walk around lens. I am more than happy with it. F/2.8 is the fastest that you can get for a zoom, so if you want faster lens...prime is the only way.

the 85mm F/1.8 is a great lens for portraits indeed....but keep in mind of your crop factor. The focal length will be longer on your ID MK II.


Canon 5D MK II | Fuji X100 | Canon T2i | Canon 100mm macro f/2.8 | Canon 135L f/2 | Canon 50mm f/1.2 L | 17-40mm f/4 L | 24-70mm f/2.8 L | 70-200mm f/4 L IS USM |Canon 430EX II Flash X2 | Pocketwizard TT5 & TT1

  
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JoeyC
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Jul 18, 2011 10:27 |  #3

thestone11 wrote in post #12778589 (external link)
the 24-70mm is an excellent lens, it is my walk around lens. I am more than happy with it. F/2.8 is the fastest that you can get for a zoom, so if you want faster lens...prime is the only way.

the 85mm F/1.8 is a great lens for portraits indeed....but keep in mind of your crop factor. The focal length will be longer on your ID MK II.

Thanks for the reply. I certainly understand the effective focal length will be longer, but in reality, it is not a huge difference. Enough to notice, sure, but not quite like APS-C where it completely changes the dynamics of a lens.

How do you find the 24-70 wide open on the extremes (24mm and 70mm)?


Joe - SE Pennsylvania
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theCOkid
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Jul 18, 2011 11:34 |  #4

Joeys wrote in post #12778405 (external link)
Then I was considering the 17-40/85 F1.8 combo. This obviously would allow me to go wider and have some flexibility with a zoom, but certainly at a loss for speed and probably bokeh.

I own both of these lenses. If speed and bokeh (assuming you mean blur) are a priority, I definitely wouldn't consider the 17-40. It's a great lens, but you're going to have a pretty deep DOF at these focal lengths with the limitation of f/4. Since you mentioned you prefer primes anyway, you'd probably be better served by a wide one for environmental portraits, IMO. There are a handful of good 24-35mm options in your price range that I think would serve you better.

The 85 f/1.8, on the other hand, is probably perfect for what you want. It's a fantastic portrait lens and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. The AF is also very fast and accurate, which will serve you well for the youth sports you mentioned too.


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Timphoto
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Jul 18, 2011 13:19 |  #5

I don't think you'd go wrong with either the 17-40/85 F1.8 combo or the 24-70.

Having said that, the 24-70 is my preferred lens on my 1DMkIV.



Tim


  
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JoeyC
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Jul 18, 2011 22:29 |  #6

theCOkid wrote in post #12779086 (external link)
I own both of these lenses. If speed and bokeh (assuming you mean blur) are a priority, I definitely wouldn't consider the 17-40. It's a great lens, but you're going to have a pretty deep DOF at these focal lengths with the limitation of f/4. Since you mentioned you prefer primes anyway, you'd probably be better served by a wide one for environmental portraits, IMO. There are a handful of good 24-35mm options in your price range that I think would serve you better.

The 85 f/1.8, on the other hand, is probably perfect for what you want. It's a fantastic portrait lens and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. The AF is also very fast and accurate, which will serve you well for the youth sports you mentioned too.

Is the wide open CA on the 85mm F1.8 enough to think twice about the lens?

Timphoto wrote in post #12779674 (external link)
I don't think you'd go wrong with either the 17-40/85 F1.8 combo or the 24-70.

Having said that, the 24-70 is my preferred lens on my 1DMkIV.

Thank you for the input.


Joe - SE Pennsylvania
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bobbyz
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Jul 18, 2011 22:43 |  #7

I love my sigma 30mm f1.4 on my 1dmk2. Now I don't shoot past f2.8 on it as it vignettes somewhat but for $350 vs $1350 (35mm f1.4 for my 5d) I am very happy with the sigma.

On longer end, 85mm f1.8 is quite nice. If looking for zoom, take a loot at tamrom 28-75mm f2.8 also. I use that one in studio.


Fuji XT-1, 18-55mm
Sony A7rIV, , Tamron 28-200mm, Sigma 40mm f1.4 Art FE, Sony 85mm f1.8 FE, Sigma 105mm f1.4 Art FE
Fuji GFX50s, 23mm f4, 32-64mm, 45mm f2.8, 110mm f2, 120mm f4 macro
Canon 24mm TSE-II, 85mm f1.2 L II, 90mm TSE-II Macro, 300mm f2.8 IS I

  
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jonmark
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Jul 19, 2011 00:51 |  #8

So now we know that FF lenses scaled to APS-C apertures aren't really viable due to chromatic aberration. What about scaling them to APS-H? APS-C is 1.62, DX is 1.52, but APS-H is 1.26, which is a 23% and 18% scale respectively from the smaller crops.

On APS-H, then, a 2.8 lens would have to be 2.2, a 1.8 1.4, and a 1.4 1.1. For the zoom factors, it seems not that difficult to do, but for the primes it looks a lot more problematic.

The question that this is relevant to is whether APS-H can potentially replace full-frame. The distance in apertures is much reduced compared to full crop vs FF, so would it be possible to produce APS-H lenses at costs comparable to FF and retain similar image quality?


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bobbyz
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Jul 19, 2011 08:36 |  #9

jonmark wrote in post #12783684 (external link)
So now we know that FF lenses scaled to APS-C apertures aren't really viable due to chromatic aberration. What about scaling them to APS-H? APS-C is 1.62, DX is 1.52, but APS-H is 1.26, which is a 23% and 18% scale respectively from the smaller crops.

On APS-H, then, a 2.8 lens would have to be 2.2, a 1.8 1.4, and a 1.4 1.1. For the zoom factors, it seems not that difficult to do, but for the primes it looks a lot more problematic.

The question that this is relevant to is whether APS-H can potentially replace full-frame. The distance in apertures is much reduced compared to full crop vs FF, so would it be possible to produce APS-H lenses at costs comparable to FF and retain similar image quality?

I have no idea as to what you saying. And if someone can show me difference between two shots taken with say 5dmk2 (FF) and 1dmk4(1.3x crop) I will buy them nice lunch at local costco. So don't sweat too much and shoot. :D


Fuji XT-1, 18-55mm
Sony A7rIV, , Tamron 28-200mm, Sigma 40mm f1.4 Art FE, Sony 85mm f1.8 FE, Sigma 105mm f1.4 Art FE
Fuji GFX50s, 23mm f4, 32-64mm, 45mm f2.8, 110mm f2, 120mm f4 macro
Canon 24mm TSE-II, 85mm f1.2 L II, 90mm TSE-II Macro, 300mm f2.8 IS I

  
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alt4852
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Jul 19, 2011 08:47 |  #10

bobbyz wrote in post #12784956 (external link)
I have no idea as to what you saying. And if someone can show me difference between two shots taken with say 5dmk2 (FF) and 1dmk4(1.3x crop) I will buy them nice lunch at local costco. So don't sweat too much and shoot. :D

the 5D2+85L wide open at MFD has a perceptibly thinner DOF than the same lens on a 1-series with the same composition. i'll do a comparison for you the next time i borrow my friend's 1D3.

ps: i'll have a turkey bake, berry smoothie, and a churro. ;)


5D4 | Z21 | 35L2 | 50L | 85L2 | 135L

  
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bobbyz
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Jul 19, 2011 09:18 |  #11

alt4852 wrote in post #12785014 (external link)
the 5D2+85L wide open at MFD has a perceptibly thinner DOF than the same lens on a 1-series with the same composition. i'll do a comparison for you the next time i borrow my friend's 1D3.

ps: i'll have a turkey bake, berry smoothie, and a churro. ;)

He didn't say DOF, that guy was talking image quality. But honestly print those shots at say 16x20 and see if you tell the difference.


Fuji XT-1, 18-55mm
Sony A7rIV, , Tamron 28-200mm, Sigma 40mm f1.4 Art FE, Sony 85mm f1.8 FE, Sigma 105mm f1.4 Art FE
Fuji GFX50s, 23mm f4, 32-64mm, 45mm f2.8, 110mm f2, 120mm f4 macro
Canon 24mm TSE-II, 85mm f1.2 L II, 90mm TSE-II Macro, 300mm f2.8 IS I

  
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zarray
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Jul 19, 2011 10:29 as a reply to  @ bobbyz's post |  #12

for portraits i use the sigma 50mm 1.4 or the 70-200mm 2.8 if i feel the need stand further back


5D Mark II | 5Dc |17-40 | 24-105 | 70-200 F2.8 IS | Sigma 50mm 1.4 | 580EX

  
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alt4852
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Jul 19, 2011 11:58 |  #13

bobbyz wrote in post #12785188 (external link)
He didn't say DOF, that guy was talking image quality. But honestly print those shots at say 16x20 and see if you tell the difference.

you can say that about a lot of things though. small incremental differences between most things won't show a significant difference. i'm sure you could say the same about comparing 1.6x crop images and 1.3x crop ones.

if you're arguing perceptible end result, then there's very little reason to upgrade anything. i can take a great portrait with a 1.6x, and people would probably only see the subject and comment on whether the photo works for them or not. the difference is that using my 5D2 gives me an even better image when i utilize it's strengths. viewers won't notice unless they compare side by side, but i would know if there was a better tool for the job.

at 16x20, a 1.6x at high ISO would still look pretty good. in any case, i was just hoping to score some free lunch, but i guess that offer came with strings. :p


5D4 | Z21 | 35L2 | 50L | 85L2 | 135L

  
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theCOkid
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Jul 19, 2011 21:13 |  #14

Joeys wrote in post #12782953 (external link)
Is the wide open CA on the 85mm F1.8 enough to think twice about the lens?

I'd be lying if I said it wasn't an issue from time to time - but way more often than not, I don't really notice it. Plus, it's really easy to remove quickly in post if it really bothers you. Stopping down makes it disappear pretty quickly too. I should maybe qualify all of this by saying that I'm not terribly picky about CA, but it's definitely not enough to make me question using the lens either way. I've been very happy with it overall. It's a solid performer.


--Ty--
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bobbyz
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Jul 19, 2011 21:24 |  #15

alt4852 wrote in post #12786164 (external link)
i was just hoping to score some free lunch, but i guess that offer came with strings. :p

OK I will buy hot dog and soda if you show the two shots where folks can tell the difference. :D


Fuji XT-1, 18-55mm
Sony A7rIV, , Tamron 28-200mm, Sigma 40mm f1.4 Art FE, Sony 85mm f1.8 FE, Sigma 105mm f1.4 Art FE
Fuji GFX50s, 23mm f4, 32-64mm, 45mm f2.8, 110mm f2, 120mm f4 macro
Canon 24mm TSE-II, 85mm f1.2 L II, 90mm TSE-II Macro, 300mm f2.8 IS I

  
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