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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 23 Oct 2008 (Thursday) 20:30
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The "No Rights" second shooter? - A moral dilemma

 
tim
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Jul 13, 2011 15:22 as a reply to  @ post 12751103 |  #46

Mayniyak wrote in post #12750970 (external link)
The very least the second shooter should be able to do is to display the images as his own work. Copyright ownership should be transferred to the primary photographer, but then licensed back to the second photographer for portfolio display (not for sale, or editing, etc).

The second shooter doesn't have a model release or permission from the couple to display it on their website. That and couples might not like finding photos of themselves popping up in random places. I wouldn't. Remember we're dealing with regular people here, it's not a generic wedding photo, it's two people and a day that's very special to them.

That's why I give the second shooter permission to display their images in a printed portfolio, but not online or publicly.


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Mayniyak
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Jul 13, 2011 15:55 |  #47

tim wrote in post #12752814 (external link)
The second shooter doesn't have a model release or permission from the couple to display it on their website. That and couples might not like finding photos of themselves popping up in random places. I wouldn't. Remember we're dealing with regular people here, it's not a generic wedding photo, it's two people and a day that's very special to them.

That's why I give the second shooter permission to display their images in a printed portfolio, but not online or publicly.

Well ok yeah that's fine, because they can at least show their work if they want to get hired elsewhere.




  
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dche5390
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Jul 15, 2011 00:57 |  #48

It depends on how far you're willing to go.

Generally speaking, she is being a tightarse, and us Aussies hate tightarses. But hey, if you won't do it, someone else will.

How far are you willing to go to get a foot in the door?


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CameraMan
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Jul 15, 2011 07:48 |  #49

If you have nothing to show for it then you really don't have your foot in the door. Basically, this first shooter cracked the door open enough for him to slip the photos in and then slammed the door shut and may have caught a finger or two.


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Gomar
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Jul 16, 2011 20:56 |  #50

If no right to display any shots you took, then I'd walk away.
What's the point of it then? It's like doing web design and not having right to show what you did.
No pay, no portfolio, no consideration, say bah bye.




  
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alann
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Jul 16, 2011 21:30 |  #51

I shot a wedding not long ago and used a inexperienced 2nd shooter. Could not use many of the pics but, just seeing the excitement on her face was enough. :) I would not think of not paying for ANYONE that assisted me. After the shoot I gave her $300.00 (it was a 6 hour shoot). Was worth every penny. Do not underestimate the value of your time. Tell her politely "No thank you".


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Newcastle ­ Photographer
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Jul 17, 2011 07:53 |  #52

Hmmm. Yes - you will get a little experience, but it sounds like you're gonna be shooting with her memory cards and may not even be able to look at your images afterwards. Check this. Like others have also said though - depends how badly you want this experience. It will reduce the worry for when you're the solo shooter though. It's all experience - even if sometimes its only a little. You will def spend alot of the day watching her and thinking "i like the way she did that" or vice versa. Thats the experience I first wanted.


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Chelsey ­ Somohano
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Jul 19, 2011 16:17 |  #53

Don't work for free.

We pay our second/third shooters quite well, with a contract stating that they are not to use them on their Facebook, Twitter, Flickr, Blog, etc. They are allowed to display images in their online portfolio (i.e. website only) but so are we. We also link and rave about our seconds on our blog, and try to get them exposure in other ways.

The experience is wonderful, but don't do it for free. There's not enough in it for you.


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freemanfan
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Jul 21, 2011 02:23 |  #54

I think the important question is does this person have something to offer, will they answer questions and are they worth the effort.

i also like the idea of going and try to absorb as much of the experience as i you can there really is no pressure and you can start to get some ideas




  
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Jul 21, 2011 02:41 |  #55

Then she should have no issue with you keeping "your" photos, except the fact that you may get a really nice image that the couple wants and she wants all rights to it - hedging

I'd discuss my concerns with her and if she doesn't budge, I'd kindly say no thank you to the gig.

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...The other really encouraging thing this photographer said was "I probably won't use any of the photos you take anyway."...


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dche5390
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Jul 21, 2011 04:31 |  #56

Chelsey Somohano wrote in post #12787585 (external link)
Don't work for free.

We pay our second/third shooters quite well, with a contract stating that they are not to use them on their Facebook, Twitter, Flickr, Blog, etc. They are allowed to display images in their online portfolio (i.e. website only) but so are we. We also link and rave about our seconds on our blog, and try to get them exposure in other ways.

The experience is wonderful, but don't do it for free. There's not enough in it for you.

But your second/third shooters are proven photographers. Not some willy nilly nobody who waltzes in expecting market rate for their time.

There is a big difference to being a reliable long-term on-call second photographer, and someone starting out wanting to gain experience.


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cdifoto
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Jul 22, 2011 13:12 |  #57

dche5390 wrote in post #12797054 (external link)
But your second/third shooters are proven photographers. Not some willy nilly nobody who waltzes in expecting market rate for their time.

There is a big difference to being a reliable long-term on-call second photographer, and someone starting out wanting to gain experience.

Yeah I actually handle important stuff when I second, as I would assume most seconds do. Seconds aren't there just to hold a camera.

BUT at the same time, the second should have some rights to their own photos ESPECIALLY without a cash payment.


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The "No Rights" second shooter? - A moral dilemma
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