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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 19 Jul 2011 (Tuesday) 16:08
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Copyright questions for when you're shooting for your employer

 
spkerer
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Jul 20, 2011 08:00 |  #16

Channel One wrote in post #12790662 (external link)
However if you read between the lines your manager did give you an out that being don’t let the “extra” work interfere with your “assigned” duties, therefore going forward I would suggest no more editing on your own time or with your own PC, work photos will be edited at work on a work PC on company time, if getting those photos processed becomes excessively delayed maintain the upper hand and offer to train a co-worker in the process to assist you with editing them or have them temporally shift some of your “assigned” work to someone else, then once the work is shifted away leave it there and gain some FO time.

I like this approach. Work on the images when you have "extra" work time available to do so. If there's not enough (or any) "extra" work time to get the images processed, they wait. You could even politely update them by saying something along the lines of "Sorry its taking so long to get the photos ready, I'm currently swamped with my normal job work. I'll get to them as soon as I have time."

I do free photos for my employer, but its in a very limited circumstance. We have an employee giving and volunteer program that I fully support. At the various volunteer programs and volunteer days they run, they ask a handful of us hobbyist photographers if we'd like to take photos of the event. I'm happy to do these photos for them because they're used primarily to promote the volunteering program internally, and sometimes outside the company.

However for any professional photography work - corporate headshots, PR events, etc., they hire professional photographers.

And some 40 hours per week jobs do still exist - I've got one of them. There are occasional times when things get too busy, but those are not the norm.


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Old ­ Coot
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Jul 20, 2011 08:38 as a reply to  @ post 12790929 |  #17

Give them all the images that you currently have. But for all future events, take the photos in RAW format only- no jpg's. Since you are busy now with your real job, you might not get around to processing those images for a very long time and when they ask for them, gladly pass off the RAW files and let them have them. You have fulfilled your obligations.


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Jul 21, 2011 08:49 |  #18

I'm not sure if this has been answered or mentionned... and I'm not even sure if it's relevant...

Who's camera did you use?

(my guess is that they can't ask you to perform a duty if they're not providing you the tools to do it - i.e. camera, editing software, etc... and this may provide you an out... or it may not...)


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CyberDyneSystems
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Jul 21, 2011 09:17 |  #19

If there was no agreement to the contrary up front (written or otherwise) then it would be nigh impossible to prove that you did not take these as an employee,.

I was in the same situation with my old employer, however in that case, I had established my work as independent, and could prove the off hours, ahead of time.

I'd say that if the company wants you to do this more in the future, they need to provide the tools and pay for the time, but you probably shouldn't try to go for it retroactively.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Jul 21, 2011 09:20 |  #20

SMP_Homer wrote in post #12797764 (external link)
...

(my guess is that they can't ask you to perform a duty if they're not providing you the tools to do it - i.e. camera, editing software, etc... and this may provide you an out... or it may not...)

No, not really the way it works I'm afraid. If work asks me to prepare a 30 page report on the technical aspects of theatrical lighting, and I write that report on my own laptop/typewriter or use my own pencil, and opt to do some of the writing at home on my time, without discussing additional pay first, then the whole report is still there's to use.

Likewise with a hammer.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Jul 21, 2011 09:24 |  #21

The thing is, that this is 99% of the time our own doing. As Sheldon mentioned, it is a mistake WE make. We want to do this at first, then we start to think and change our minds.

Again, you agreed to this, if not the images would not yet exist. You just didn't grasp the full meaning of what you agreed to.


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Willie
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Jul 21, 2011 11:36 |  #22

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #12797947 (external link)
No, not really the way it works I'm afraid. If work asks me to prepare a 30 page report on the technical aspects of theatrical lighting, and I write that report on my own laptop/typewriter or use my own pencil, and opt to do some of the writing at home on my time, without discussing additional pay first, then the whole report is still there's to use.

Likewise with a hammer.

The way I read the response was that it could provide an out from having to do the work, not who owns copyright.




  
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Nightstalker
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Jul 21, 2011 12:45 |  #23

Channel One wrote in post #12790662 (external link)
However if you read between the lines your manager did give you an out that being don’t let the “extra” work interfere with your “assigned” duties, therefore going forward I would suggest no more editing on your own time or with your own PC, work photos will be edited at work on a work PC on company time, if getting those photos processed becomes excessively delayed maintain the upper hand and offer to train a co-worker in the process to assist you with editing them or have them temporally shift some of your “assigned” work to someone else, then once the work is shifted away leave it there and gain some FO time.

Don't forget that in order to do the work in company time it is likely that they will need to buy all of the software that you need as it usnlikely that they will have LR3 / PSCS5 on a standard work PC. That said it is probably stretching it that a standard work PC will run PSCS5 adequately anyway.


  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Jul 21, 2011 12:56 |  #24

Willie wrote in post #12798829 (external link)
The way I read the response was that it could provide an out from having to do the work, not who owns copyright.

.. I think you are right... :)


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Jul 23, 2011 05:23 |  #25

Not sure about the US but over here (in N. Ireland) because you have been doing it for so long it can be seen as 'common working practice'. Same as if you had been taking a 15 minute break every hour for the last 5 years and the company wanted to change it. Even if these are unofficial breaks any union would probably fight it under the 'common working practice' banner.

To be honest I think you have painted yourself into a corner. I would probably hand over all images taken up to now, but as others have said tell management that every image taken and processed from here on will only be done on company time.#

Also do you use your own camera body? I know you mentioned them hiring lenses for you but if you use you own body they're not paying for wear and tear. Stop using it and ask them to purchase a company camera for you to use.


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GtrPlyr
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Jul 23, 2011 07:14 |  #26
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OP hasn't responded. All that typing everyone did goes thankless and unappreciated.
Maybe since he posted he immediately got into a big fight with his boss, got fired, then hit the bars and got wasted, slept with some stranger, went home the next day and got into a bitter quarrel with his wife, she then wants a divorce and throws him out of the house, now he's out living on the streets and has no way of accessing a computer. :)


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sspellman
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Jul 23, 2011 08:14 |  #27

Almost all companies I have worked for in the last 10 years have clauses in HR documents that specify that the company owns all your creative product you create while you are at work. You have probably signed documents that specify this clearly. Even if you haven't, I cannot see that company event photos have significant other value and that refusing to provide the photos could cause you significant problems at work. While you have developed your own photography business while you have worked for this company, complaining about additional work or not doing photography is probably not a good career move.

The most important question to me is how do you make the best of this situation. I doubt that the company would give you a specific bonus or direct financial compensation for your additional work. The strategy I would follow would be to get the company to provide you all the equipment necessary to do the photography-cameras, accessories, lighting, laptop, etc and then try to use the company equipment for your other photography outside of work.

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RDKirk
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Jul 23, 2011 08:18 as a reply to  @ sspellman's post |  #28

and then try to use the company equipment for your other photography outside of work.

That would be a mistake.




  
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Copyright questions for when you're shooting for your employer
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