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Thread started 01 Aug 2011 (Monday) 09:04
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eBay sale - What would you do?

 
MOkoFOko
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Aug 02, 2011 19:15 |  #31

cacawcacaw wrote in post #12859059 (external link)
You know, I've read that it's a common ploy for a seller to bid on their own item in hopes of driving up the price, and then retract their bid at the last moment. Is it possible that's what happened?

It would be interesting to see if the seller has a history of last-minute retracted bids and/or canceled auctions. I don't know if that information is available in their profile.

It would also be interesting if the seller re-lists the item and you notified eBay. Or, just go ahead and bid on it and then pay only the amount you had previously offered. If nothing else, it would make for an humorous confrontation!

That is no longer possible, unless you're using an account that has never been used by the same IP as the seller--otherwise ebay catches it and you get an account warning. Like 2 warnings and your account gets blacklisted. The only real way to do it is to get a friend or family member elsewhere to drive up prices. It's not worth it.


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sandpiper
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Aug 02, 2011 20:12 as a reply to  @ MOkoFOko's post |  #32

Just to throw one other thought into the mix (and I am not saying the OP was involved in this). In the same way as sellers sometimes get a friend to bid, in the hope of running the price up, then drop out if they overcook it and run the risk of actually winning the item themselves, buyers can run a similar dodge to get the item really cheap.

It works by letting a couple of people put in the traditional, low, early bids, then the two working in conjunction get into a "bidding war" before the price gets too high. They place several bids, leapfrogging each other, and run the price up way above what is sensible. This then means that the auction continues, possibly for a few days, with no further bidders because the price is too high and puts the competition off. Then just as the auction is about to end, one pulls out which removes all their bids and the other guys bid tumbles all the way back down to where they started.

So, a lens that may be worth 200.00 is quickly run up to say 25.00 by other bidders just marking the auction to come back to later. The two guys working together then rapidly bid it up to 300.00 which stops any further bidding. The high bidder then drops out just as the auction is about to end, and the other guy is left as the winning bidder at around 27.00 or so.

Such price drops can sometimes happen, even if the two high bidders are not collaborating. A bidding war can run the price up, then one bidder wins another auction for the same item, so no longer needs this one and cancels their bid. No collusion and no malice intended, but it has stopped people bidding who would have bid otherwise, had the "current bid" been showing at the eventual (reduced) winning amount.

In either scenario, the seller has not got a fair price for his item because of somebody cancelling a bid. If that happens, I can understand them not wanting to go ahead because the auction has (IMO) been a 'misauction' due to what happened. In the opening post, we are told the seller cancelled because the lens reached a price way below it's value.

In such cases, I feel the fairest thing is to simply relist the item straight away and let everybody bid again. That is what happens in a land based auction room, if there is a problem with the bidding process they simply start again.

I don't know if that is the case here, but maybe the seller has some justification, if the last minute bid cancellation caused the high bid to drop significantly.




  
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Celtic ­ Tiger
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Aug 02, 2011 20:33 |  #33

sandpiper wrote in post #12866429 (external link)
Just to throw one other thought into the mix (and I am not saying the OP was involved in this). In the same way as sellers sometimes get a friend to bid, in the hope of running the price up, then drop out if they overcook it and run the risk of actually winning the item themselves, buyers can run a similar dodge to get the item really cheap.

It works by letting a couple of people put in the traditional, low, early bids, then the two working in conjunction get into a "bidding war" before the price gets too high. They place several bids, leapfrogging each other, and run the price up way above what is sensible. This then means that the auction continues, possibly for a few days, with no further bidders because the price is too high and puts the competition off. Then just as the auction is about to end, one pulls out which removes all their bids and the other guys bid tumbles all the way back down to where they started.

So, a lens that may be worth 200.00 is quickly run up to say 25.00 by other bidders just marking the auction to come back to later. The two guys working together then rapidly bid it up to 300.00 which stops any further bidding. The high bidder then drops out just as the auction is about to end, and the other guy is left as the winning bidder at around 27.00 or so.

Such price drops can sometimes happen, even if the two high bidders are not collaborating. A bidding war can run the price up, then one bidder wins another auction for the same item, so no longer needs this one and cancels their bid. No collusion and no malice intended, but it has stopped people bidding who would have bid otherwise, had the "current bid" been showing at the eventual (reduced) winning amount.

In either scenario, the seller has not got a fair price for his item because of somebody cancelling a bid. If that happens, I can understand them not wanting to go ahead because the auction has (IMO) been a 'misauction' due to what happened. In the opening post, we are told the seller cancelled because the lens reached a price way below it's value.

In such cases, I feel the fairest thing is to simply relist the item straight away and let everybody bid again. That is what happens in a land based auction room, if there is a problem with the bidding process they simply start again.

I don't know if that is the case here, but maybe the seller has some justification, if the last minute bid cancellation caused the high bid to drop significantly.

Isn't that what a "reserve" price is for?


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sandpiper
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Aug 02, 2011 20:47 |  #34

Celtic Tiger wrote in post #12866560 (external link)
Isn't that what a "reserve" price is for?

Sure, but reserve prices can slow down the bidding and get you a lower price as a lot of potential bidders see "reserve" and assume that it is likely to be fairly high and just pass by and look for another auction.

The same item, started at 99p (or your local equivalent), will attract a lot of early bidding from several bidders hoping it will go cheap, then some get caught up in bidding for it and it can fetch a really good price.

I start most of my auctions at 99p and generally get higher prices than typical for that item. Plus, no listing fee to pay either.




  
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TeamSpeed
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Aug 02, 2011 20:47 |  #35

I buy and sell on ebay quite a bit, and I am not sure how you cancel an auction after it has ended and there was a winner, without the winner's consent.

http://pages.ebay.com …-transaction-process.html (external link)

In any case, nothing in life regarding sales is final, even when it seems final. Even in real estate, a potential buyer can accept a seller contract, and they pay their earnest money, then decide later to back out of the deal. They should lose their earnest money and could be sued for the lost commissions, but in the end it never seems to go that far due to the hassle. That is more binding then selling personal items on ebay, and you can't win those contractual obligations very easily.


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tkbslc
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Aug 02, 2011 20:49 |  #36

TeamSpeed wrote in post #12866635 (external link)
I buy and sell on ebay quite a bit, and I am not sure how you cancel an auction after it has ended and there was a winner, without the winner's consent.


Pretty easy. Don't take the money and don't ship the item. Ebay will still ding you for their fees though.


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Aug 02, 2011 20:51 |  #37

tkbslc wrote in post #12866649 (external link)
Pretty easy. Don't take the money and don't ship the item. Ebay will still ding you for their fees though.

I am just referring to the OP stating that they canceled the auction. That sounds like a more formal action than just not responding or refusing to send anything. In any case, there are more important things in life then getting miffed at what could have been a great deal.


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craigslistpost604
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Aug 03, 2011 00:30 |  #38
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errr...who cares? Does it matter anymore? Find another auction to bid on. Just remember to give them a NEGATIVE feedback if you want to get back at them.




  
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moose10101
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Aug 03, 2011 08:18 |  #39

sandpiper wrote in post #12866429 (external link)
It works by letting a couple of people put in the traditional, low, early bids, then the two working in conjunction get into a "bidding war" before the price gets too high. They place several bids, leapfrogging each other, and run the price up way above what is sensible. This then means that the auction continues, possibly for a few days, with no further bidders because the price is too high and puts the competition off. Then just as the auction is about to end, one pulls out which removes all their bids and the other guys bid tumbles all the way back down to where they started.

That's called 'bid shielding". eBay pretty much eliminated that problem when they changed the rules for retracting bids at least five years ago. In the last 12 hours of an auction, you can't retract a bid that was made outside of the 12-hour mark. And if you place a bid with less than 12 hours to go, a retraction has to be made within an hour of placing it.

So your scenario is not possible, at least on eBay.




  
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Aug 03, 2011 08:26 |  #40

I think its called bid shilling, just as an fyi for those researching the term


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moose10101
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Aug 03, 2011 09:08 |  #41

TeamSpeed wrote in post #12869062 (external link)
I think its called bid shilling, just as an fyi for those researching the term

"Bid shilling" is done by a seller. "Bid shielding" is done by a buyer.




  
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tkbslc
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Aug 03, 2011 10:17 |  #42

Shall we all agree that Ebay is the bane of our existence and move on?


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Aug 03, 2011 10:22 |  #43

moose10101 wrote in post #12869295 (external link)
"Bid shilling" is done by a seller. "Bid shielding" is done by a buyer.

Sorry, yes what you were replying to from the poster above you is indeed shielding, I didn't follow the train of thought there, my bad. :oops: But that is not remotely a possibility here for what sandpiper suggested. Bid shilling would have been the more likely case, if there was any such activity planned for this auction.

In any case, it is all moot, the op should just move on. Even leaving negative feedback is a waste, because the seller can pitch a great story to Ebay, and have the negative feedback removed.


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photoguy6405
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Aug 05, 2011 17:58 |  #44

They relisted the item with a starting bid over 100% higher and shipping costs also increased 50%.


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Aug 05, 2011 18:01 |  #45

That would have been expected given the reason issued to you in the OP.


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eBay sale - What would you do?
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