A warning on Ebay

Bare with me, the following will be copy and pasted from another forum I frequent. I'm posting it here as a lot of you will be Ebay members and potentially at risk of being screwed over (especially as the member focuses on photography gear). Also I apologise if this is in the wrong place, this seemed most suitable.

Okay, a little backstory first. So there I am selling some **** on Ebay with a reserve when I get a bid that takes it past that. I thought "**** yeah" and told my momma that I'd just made at least 60 quid, but then a few days later the item is back down to like 20 quid and the reserve never got met. So, I check out the bid history and notice some bellend by the name of "twinney12" has retracted their bid because they "entered and incorrect amount". Now I'd usually be fine with that, some people have sticky keyboards or can't count very well and so get bids wrong, however the fact that it took them like 2 days to notice their "mistake" and they never entered a correct bid made me suspicious.

So, I report this to Ebay believing it to be an invalid bid retraction and thus a violation of their rules. I get an email back saying they're going to investigate it and in the mean time to go to the members profile and see how many bid retractions they've made. Now, I was expecting like 20 or so in the last 12 months, thinking they just decide they don't want something a couple times a month, however they had over 150 (more than 10 a month). So, I read up on how this could possibly benefit them and it turns out they can make a bid of any silly amount such as 10 grand and it will automatically bid at the reserve price, if it's too much for them they just cancel. They can also take advantage of it by bidding on multiple item of the same kind, then as they come to a finish retracting bids on all those except the one that looks to be going for the least.

By now I'm seriously pissed, it's obvious this member is deliberately violating the rules for their own gain and I can't imagine why no one else has reported him before and how Ebay have let it slip by (do they not monitor bid retractions?). I then get an email back saying appropriate action has been taken and I'm feeling like Super Man for bringing down some wrong doer, so I go to view the member's profile and see the bid retractions slowly falling (I assume they redid the bids on auctions that hadn't yet ended). But, good things never last. It wasn't long before the bid retractions started going back up and I just wanted to **** slap this mofo for being such an arsehole. Again I email Ebay, but before doing so I do some snooping. I have a little look to see what twinney12 had bought recently and made a mental note, then I went to look at what they were selling. Immediately I recognised their one auction, it was something they had bought just a few days earlier. The price? Of course it was a Buy It Now of more than they paid for it, all is becoming clear now.

I got an email back from Ebay with the same old tripe, "We're looking into it but unfortunately for privacy reasons can't discuss any actions we take with you". **** the member's privacy, what about the rights of those he's ****ing over? So over the next couple days I keep the profile open, periodically refreshing and waiting for the bid retractions to increase. Now it probably comes as no surprise to say that another one was made, Ebay obviously doesn't give a **** about they're members and doesn't care to enforce their own rules. Again I check out what twinney12 is selling and again recognise the two new items. Both are on Buy It Nows for more than they paid for them and one even has parts of the description copy and pasted from the original including a claim of owning the product since new and caring well for it, and of course since they only bought it the day before is an obvious lie. Once again I have reported them to Ebay, no doubt in vain as they will continue to not care as long as they're getting a cut of the money.

So, on the likely chance that this **** carries on I want to spread this message to as many places as possible, both in hopes of stopping this arse from ripping people off and to bring to light (and hopefully change) just how little Ebay gives a ****: Do not buy from or sell to "twinney12". If they attempt to buy from you report them, if you come across one of their listings report them, **** if you've got nothing better to do report them anyway.

Please, spread this around where ever you can (even just the bit in bold at the end, if anyone asks why link them to here).

Wow! That would make me pissed too! I remember when I was selling my XTi in a bundle with some other stuff and I had it up something like 350 to 450. i was stoked cause i had it up for 400 on CL and no bites but then i see the bid drop down to like ~415. I saw that there was also a bid retraction. I didn't think much about it then but since you brought it up that clearly clicked the excitement i had when it was *going* to sell for more than what i originally posted.

That does piss me off now that you say it. I just about had it selling stuff on there and dealing with the scammers. that always pissed me off more than anything.

Spread this around and if enough begin doing it Ebay will lose money and put an end to it.

So, the super long story (relatively) short version of this appears to be --

User makes super high bid to find out reserve price. If they dont want to pay that price (which from what's been posted, they don't seem to want to most of the time) they retract the bid. For the stuff they win, they turn around and sell it for profit, but they lie in their auction saying it's new or they've owned it from day one, when in essence they've had it for a day or two since they just bought it on eBay.

In some ways, it's crap. Bid retraction should work differently for reserve auctions to prevent stuff like this (you should only be allowed to retract a bid in a reserve auction if another person has outbid you, at which point, their bid falls to the reserve price).

Some of the uproar seems to be buying and selling for profit though, and people are always going to do that on different levels. I know people that do that as a substantial part of their income. Granted, they dont usually lie about the items in their auctions if they're selling on eBay or on a forum, but it's the same basic principle. When I buy used gear, I am usually patient enough to wait for a good enough deal that if I decide I dont want it or need to sell it down the road, I get my money back + some.

Mistabernie wrote in post #12875608
So, the super long story (relatively) short version of this appears to be --

User makes super high bid to find out reserve price. If they dont want to pay that price (which from what's been posted, they don't seem to want to most of the time) they retract the bid. For the stuff they win, they turn around and sell it for profit, but they lie in their auction saying it's new or they've owned it from day one, when in essence they've had it for a day or two since they just bought it on eBay.

In some ways, it's crap. Bid retraction should work differently for reserve auctions to prevent stuff like this (you should only be allowed to retract a bid in a reserve auction if another person has outbid you, at which point, their bid falls to the reserve price).

Some of the uproar seems to be buying and selling for profit though, and people are always going to do that on different levels. I know people that do that as a substantial part of their income. Granted, they dont usually lie about the items in their auctions if they're selling on eBay or on a forum, but it's the same basic principle. When I buy used gear, I am usually patient enough to wait for a good enough deal that if I decide I dont want it or need to sell it down the road, I get my money back + some.

Yes, but the real pisser is that Ebay is making a profit on this BS.

Yes, eBay doesn't do a good job of disciplining buyers. No surprise there.

You could:

a) Announce your reserve price in the title and/or description.

b) Not use the reserve feature, by making your starting bid whatever amount your reserve would have been. And you get to keep the fee you would have paid for using a reserve.

Mistabernie wrote in post #12875608
Some of the uproar seems to be buying and selling for profit though, and people are always going to do that on different levels. I know people that do that as a substantial part of their income. Granted, they dont usually lie about the items in their auctions if they're selling on eBay or on a forum, but it's the same basic principle. When I buy used gear, I am usually patient enough to wait for a good enough deal that if I decide I dont want it or need to sell it down the road, I get my money back + some.

Don't get me wrong, I've got no problem with people making some profit honestly, most of the stuff I sell I've gotten good deals on so make a fair bit of money back. What I don't like is when a user is violating the rules to get those good deals and screwing others over in the process, and then lying about the item when they sell it.

A little update on the situation, no email back from Ebay yet. Some bad news is someones gone and bought one of the items, a 30D for £250 when the guy only bought it for £205. That also the item he lied about owning from new and caring for, and he said the shutter count was approximately 10,000 despite the fact he has no way of telling except what the previous seller told him.

He's also selling a Pentax K mount to EF adapter that he supposedly bought for £26.50 for £19, yet he bought it a few days earlier for £13.50 (and again has copy and pasted the item description).

First of all I feel for someone who has to work 24/7 to make ends meet buying and selling gear on Ebay. Second you are lucky the mob doesn't send a goon to your doorstep once a month to collect protection money to keep your business from burning to the ground. Third Ebay has a problem on their hands and they need to solve it. So you found a "taker" in the system. Lots of them out there.

jetcode wrote in post #12876076
First of all I feel for someone who has to work 24/7 to make ends meet buying and selling gear on Ebay.

Again I've got no problem with that, if people cam profit from a good deal then good for them. What I do have a problem with is when they get those deals dishonestly and lie to the people they're selling to.

Sorry mate, I don't understand that at all.

Exactly. I've basically handed this scammer to them on a plate and they refuse to take action to stop him. They're more focused on making money than protecting their users.

You just have to figure out how to work the system like they do.

Consider that ebay gets paid when this bozo buys something. Ebay gets paid again when they resell something. Ebay isn't going to do anything to lower their own income.

I don't use reserve prices... I just set the minimum bid to what the reserve would have been. I think the whole reserve price is lame.

I bought some filters from a guy who had "BUY IT NOW OR BEST OFFER" and would put their lowest price in the description, and since there lowest price was the best I could find I bought them. So I guess it's just a tax for the stupid people, but I bet a lot of people pay.

While I find that Ebay has a pretty decent automated anti-fraud protection system dealing with their customer service reps is pretty disappointing. I once had a few T-mobile phone cards that I had no use for, so I posted them on EBay. Someone bought a card from me and emailed asking to have the code from the card emailed (== no paypal protection for me) because they needed it ASAP. I've responded saying that I wasn't going to do that and asking if they wanted a refund, but got no reply. Next day the very same person bought another card and sent the same email. I've checked their feedback and they had several several positive feedback from the day before from other sellers. The buyer was also buying cards in low denomination ($25) instead of fewer $50 or $100 cards. That was a pretty good indication of something fishy going on, so I 've decided to chat with an EBay rep. After hearing the story the rep assured me that their anti-fraud protection is excellent, buyer is legit and encouraged to send out the cards. I've decided to go with a gut feeling and canceled both PayPal transactions. Sure enough 3-4 month later I got an email from PayPal saying that those were unauthorized transactions...glad I didn't send anything out.

E bay isn't going to do anything. Forget about it and move on, and stop doing business with ebay.

I don't bid on items with a reserve price. Too much work and hassle as a buyer. Either let it ride true auction style, or just put buy it now at what you want to sell it for.

I put a Buy It Now price as well, usually below the lowest price I can find on Ebay. The reason I go with a reserve instead of starting at that price is because I like it to show up sooner in searches, however it does cost more and put some people off and of course only works for anything over £50. I think in the future I'll just go with starting it at a higher price.

This, to me, is in line with sellers that clearly make fake accounts to bid on their own products. It happens an awful lot.