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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 18 Jul 2011 (Monday) 16:37
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First all-Asian wedding - a complete disaster!

 
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Nismode
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Aug 09, 2011 13:45 |  #421

cdifoto wrote in post #12904576 (external link)
Every response on his part gives them an opportunity to respond. That's how you prolong things.

To each his own for sure, but OP says he wants to put it down. He's not helping himself by acknowledging their time wasting messages. I think it's very STUPID to keep replying.

This is also true.


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Cliffbsa
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Aug 09, 2011 13:52 as a reply to  @ Nismode's post |  #422

His problem, his solution. But we can all learn from how he handles it and what the final outcome is. It's really not that hard to unsubscribe if you're ticked off with how he's handling it.:confused:




  
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dariussutherland
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Aug 09, 2011 14:16 as a reply to  @ Cliffbsa's post |  #423

I don't think anyone is generally ticked off to be honest. It's an interesting yet frustrating thread.

It's like an ex girlfriend who keeps calling. If you keep picking up the phone talking to her, she thinks she has a bit of hope.

The only resolution is for him to pay up. The OP has said that, so enough has been said and no more can actually be said.

Pay up or shut up and he needs to make this clear. Any other communication is a complete waste of time on both parts and I am suprised the OP has time for it...


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suecassidy
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Aug 09, 2011 14:20 |  #424

Cliffbsa wrote in post #12904879 (external link)
His problem, his solution. But we can all learn from how he handles it and what the final outcome is. It's really not that hard to unsubscribe if you're ticked off with how he's handling it.:confused:

The OP doesn't need to be bashed on this forum. By keeping us in the information loop, he is merely allowing us to benefit from his experience, however you take that to mean. It may even be cathartic for him to write about it, whatever. This forum is partly about everyone learning from someone else's experiences, and I find this thread very interesting on many levels. I like to learn from someone else's business life lessons, as much as my own. I think he is doing a great service to allow us a glimpse into his situation and debate about it. I hope everything works out well for him. Well said, Cliff...people can unsubscribe if they don't like it.


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Jimconnerphoto
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Aug 09, 2011 14:51 |  #425

One of the reasons I am on this forum and why I see it as being valuable is to see how others handle situations I am either in or may find myself in.
Personally I hope you do keep us up to date.
I do not know if there is a right way to handle it or not.


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emelvee
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Aug 09, 2011 14:53 |  #426

zagiace wrote in post #12905237 (external link)
One of the reasons I am on this forum and why I see it as being valuable is to see how others handle situations I am either in or may find myself in.
Personally I hope you do keep us up to date.
I do not know if there is a right way to handle it or not.

Agree completely - OP may say he is short on time, but how long does it take to give us an update here and then? It's not like he is replying to each and every person with long responses. It's a hard lesson to learn, but totally valuable for those who read it - and I know for me, writing in this forum lets me vent, and often helps me get advice as well.


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cdifoto
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Aug 09, 2011 15:46 |  #427

How valuable can it be? Let's be honest with ourselves for once.

We knew right off the bat that he should have gotten payment up front. should not have caved on his terms, should not have gotten the gear out until he was paid, etc etc etc. That was settled on page 1, maybe page 2. That's the big business lesson here.

It wasn't much later that we saw the excuses roll in. OP then updated us every time the clients made a new one. Then he gave us details about the check being post dated and so forth.

Do we REALLY need each one of these details to help our businesses? I don't think so. I think it's pretty much reality TV at this point, and has been for awhile. We watch with interest the same way we rubberneck a car accident. We're not learning anything new from it, we just like to see carnage.

I'm not upset about this in the least, but I think the OP, as annoyed as he claims to be, isn't helping himself or his business alleviate that pain at all by responding to nonsense messages from the clients and updating the forum with such drama.

If you don't want to deal with BS, don't deal with BS. It's really THAT simple.


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Jimconnerphoto
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Aug 09, 2011 15:58 |  #428

I understand what you are saying. My desire is to see how others deal with difficult clients. Not necessarily in this exact situation. I do have clients that I bill after the fact. Most of my commercial accounts are net30.

We all get clients that want to change things or that are just plain unpleasant to deal with.
it is interesting to me to see how others react and what the resolutions were.
If I get to the point where I don't need to learn anything else I may change that point.


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Nomofica
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Aug 09, 2011 16:00 |  #429

cdifoto wrote in post #12905534 (external link)
How valuable can it be? Let's be honest with ourselves for once.

We knew right off the bat that he should have gotten payment up front. should not have caved on his terms, should not have gotten the gear out until he was paid, etc etc etc. That was settled on page 1, maybe page 2. That's the big business lesson here.

It wasn't much later that we saw the excuses roll in. OP then updated us every time the clients made a new one. Then he gave us details about the check being post dated and so forth.

Do we REALLY need each one of these details to help our businesses? I don't think so. I think it's pretty much reality TV at this point, and has been for awhile. We watch with interest the same way we rubberneck a car accident. We're not learning anything new from it, we just like to see carnage.

I'm not upset about this in the least, but I think the OP, as annoyed as he claims to be, isn't helping himself or his business alleviate that pain at all by responding to nonsense messages from the clients and updating the forum with such drama.

If you don't want to deal with BS, don't deal with BS. It's really THAT simple.

I have to agree. This applies not only to business, but life in general. This is exactly how I kept myself from being a part of all the drama back in high school (which, again, is like life in general - people don't seem to move on from high school).


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spider87
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Aug 09, 2011 16:12 |  #430

cdifoto, I don't know if you missed it but his lawyer (friend mind you but he IS a lawyer) advised him that he should keep in communication with them. The reason being, if they were to go to court, they could say "Well he wouldn't answer any of our phone calls. We tried calling him this day, this day and this day to pay but he didn't answer." and that could be used against him.

Also, as others have said, coming on here to laugh about "what they did now" could be his way of lightening the load on his shoulders. I know that would be my way to do it. You may enjoy keeping everything bottled up but some people have different ways of coping with things. I am enjoying OP keeping us updated and I hope OP continues to do so.


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cdifoto
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Aug 09, 2011 16:26 |  #431

I don't know if you missed it but I said he does have to answer his phone. He doesn't have to respond to emails containing nonsense (he will have to read them, to make sure they do contain nothing but nonsense), and he can tell them flat out "the next thing I want to hear from you is that the payment will clear. Do not contact me for any other reason." It's okay to have a spine and use it.

You don't have to keep kissing ass. You don't even have to be polite at all when they're screwing with you.

Keeping communication lines open isn't the same as keeping drama alive.


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SMP_Homer
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Aug 09, 2011 16:29 |  #432

spider87 wrote in post #12905644 (external link)
cdifoto, I don't know if you missed it but his lawyer (friend mind you but he IS a lawyer) advised him that he should keep in communication with them. The reason being, if they were to go to court, they could say "Well he wouldn't answer any of our phone calls. We tried calling him this day, this day and this day to pay but he didn't answer." and that could be used against him.

I don't have to answer the calls, but if they leave a message, I should respond in a timely manner. So I can sorta ignore them, and call them back when time permits...

The other issue where I may have messed up a bit (and the videographer got it right) is by accepting those 2 post-dated checks... that's similar to a verbal agreement, so both of these have to fail before I can enforce my own terms again - so I can't ask them to stop calling me, but I'm in the clear as far as letting them know when I can work on these again


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spider87
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Aug 09, 2011 16:45 |  #433

That's very true, cdi and sorry, I did miss you saying about answering. I do still believe, though, that he is perfectly reasonable in coming on here and talking about the issue since it's not like he keeps making thread after thread. He simply updates this one letting us know what's up and (probably) relieving a little stress at the same time.

And, SMP, I didn't remember the exact details I just remembered your lawyer friend saying that you shouldn't completely shut them out.

As for the check thing, there's a lesson right there for all of us, some might say they wouldn't do it but you also have the knowledge of what happened to OP already in your head. I'm not saying everybody would but I, being a noob in photography and also fairly blind to the business world still, might have not thought twice about accepting post dated checks prior to reading this thread.


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cdifoto
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Aug 09, 2011 17:11 |  #434

I'd accept a post-dated check from a friend, relative, or client with a good track record. I don't think that is a problem in and of itself. I think the problem is accepting it from this particular couple.


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jmg181
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Aug 09, 2011 17:15 |  #435

SMP_Homer wrote in post #12905736 (external link)
that's similar to a verbal agreement, so both of these have to fail before I can enforce my own terms again

Why both? Wouldn't the first bouncing check negate the effectively revised terms? (In case you got this answer from your lawyer friend, I'm curious)


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