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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 10 Aug 2011 (Wednesday) 10:54
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Considering Zeiss 2/50MP with a 2/35 - complement or conflict?

 
jetcode
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Aug 10, 2011 15:52 |  #16

Sounds like a really nice system digitaljay.
The 50 ZE and 35/2 make a great pair. I had a 35/2 for a while and traded for a PC Distagon. Some great commentary on use in the field in the comments.

crazeazn wrote in post #12911564 (external link)
Jetcode what leica-r lenses would u recommend? (non-rom/3cam) The zeiss is a bit more clear cut.

The Leica I have are as follows: (the only 3 cam I have is the 100 APO)

19/2.8 Elmarit-R
Nice with barrel distortion rather than mustache distortion in the 21. This is easier to correct. I have the latest version which I believe has sharper corners. Sharp as a tack and with a pro fotodiox adapter infinity focus. I had this lens sent to Adam at Steve Grimes to shave the rim protecting the rear lens element. This is necessary as this rim is rather tall. Adam did an amazing job as usual. Lens works perfect. Built in filters.

100/2.8 APO Elmarit-R Macro
I can't say enough about this lens. It is legendary. As if the color doesn't knock you out the IQ will. From f/2.8 to f/8 this lens exhibits the same IQ corner to corner sharpness and fidelity across the frame. No other macro does that. While not the sharpest macro I would never be able to tell because it out resolves the 5DII image IQ. This is my macro of choice. Note that at f/2.8 infinity focus is not possible. The lens must be stopped down to f/4 or f/5.6 to get infinity focus.

180/2.8 APO Elmarit-R
This is another legendary lens as are all the APO in the R line. Originally designed for the navy the first version (f/3.4) is amazing sharp at infinity. It's short comings are minimum focal distance. This was resolved in the f/2.8) version. This lens is amazing. The color fidelity is beautiful.

280/4 APO Telyt-R
A longer version of the lens above. Amazing quality. This lens wide open producing stunning results.

One lens I can recommend though I have never tried it:

90/2 APO Asph R Summicron
This lens is another legendary Leica lens. Some of these may come in 3-cam.




  
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rusty.jg
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Aug 10, 2011 17:15 as a reply to  @ jetcode's post |  #17

BlueTsunami wrote in post #12911024 (external link)
but I think the gulf between 35mm and 85mm would be quite dramatic and more useful over 35 to 50.


Thanks BlueTsunami - I must admit that if there's one thing I have learned over the past year its that I dont really have an eye for lenses around the 85mm+ mark. Dont know why, I'm just highly unimpressed with anything I produce in that range. Maybe I need more practice but the truth of the matter is I dont enjoy taking the longer shots. Maybe I'll mature one day.....;)

p6889k wrote in post #12911123 (external link)
And just to add to your question about Sharpness and Contrast comparison. In my non-scientific use I would call them about equal, if anything I would probably rate the 50/2 little bit higher. The truth is, both of these lenses produce such exceptional images that trying to compare sharpness, contrast, 3D, etc. is rather meaningless. They're both superb.

Thanks for your insight - good to know that they're on a level (to all intents and purposes). In a perfect world I would like the 50 to give me identical rendering to the 35 and then I swap one out for the other as I think I would get more versatility without really losing anything much. That said, the "thing" that I would lose would be the performance of the 2/35 @f2 - the vignetting, the dof falloff, the contrasty colours, the characteristic blur. When I think about it its almost a bit silly to keep quite an expensive lens just for one f-stop. But then I suppose in some cases thats what you buy a lens for....

jetcode wrote in post #12911360 (external link)
http://www.joethibodea​u.com …-dairy-digi-1900-1861.jpg (external link)

At this point I am hoping that Canon will be able produce a next generation that has more pixels and greater dynamic range. That is the limit in my rig at this time.

nice stitch! I can see what you mean about clarity in those lenses. If the 1.7 is on a par, it might well be a serious contender. Lets just say I have a couple extra items in my watch list on flea-bay now....

bpark42 wrote in post #12911339 (external link)
I own and use both, but admittedly I often choose the 50 if I am specifically thinking about doing at least some close-up work. I suppose they might feel a bit more redundant if I primarily used them at medium to long (infinity) distances, but I would still keep both in my bag.

I'm wondering if I can stretch to both in my bag for a while just to make my own mind up. They will both be used at longer ranges but I am curious as I've never owned such a short macro lens before - maybe I'll like that shorter FL for close-ups.

digitaljay wrote in post #12911598 (external link)
For general purpose walking around stuff, I prefer the 2/35. It has more of the "3D" look and I prefer the look of the 35 wide open, vignetting and all, to the 50 wide open. The colors from the 35 also pop a bit more IMO. It is also a very easy lens to focus.

If I had to pick one, I would go for the 50, but that's based mostly on focal length.

Thanks also for your thoughts - although again its obviously not a clear-cut case. The main appeal of the 50 for me is the detail capture. The 35 is obviously no slouch but I've seen time and time again the fine points this 50 pulls out of images in the archive threads (and heard people talk about it).

So it looks like I might have to investigate the 50 1.7 and a 50MP - both appear to be a good replacement for me, just need to squirrel up some funds and come to a decision.


to be OR NOT to be = 1 (which is "to be" so that one's cleared up at last ;-)a)
www.VividCornwall.co.u​k (external link) (external link)
Sony Nex-5n (x2) / Metabones EF-NEX Smart Adapter / Canon 10-22mm / Canon 100mm Macro / Sigma 18-50mm

  
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crazeazn
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Aug 10, 2011 19:56 |  #18

T* is the biznass, you can't go wrong!

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6140/6006111625_b114f3f6f2_b.jpg

John H.
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BlueTsunami
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Aug 10, 2011 20:38 |  #19

rusty.jg wrote in post #12912232 (external link)
So it looks like I might have to investigate the 50 1.7 and a 50MP - both appear to be a good replacement for me, just need to squirrel up some funds and come to a decision.

Definitely look in to the 50/1.7 if you want a lens that's good all 'round but don't need to get close to small subjects, it has a longer than usual Minimum Focus Distance. I personally got a set of dumb (as in no electronics) metal tubes to use with it that helps. In regards to its rendering when used in nature here are some examples for you...

IMAGE: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2492/5753053700_1f1b6b6f7b_b.jpg

IMAGE: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2309/5699259735_286bff3151_b.jpg

IMAGE: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/5447488936_75748bc0b5_b.jpg

I wish I had more Landscape photos with it since its pretty phenomenal at Infinity but I had to dig up this one I had taken at Niagara Falls

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image%2fjpeg'


In regards to this lens and the modern Makro the Makro will give you a more diffused bokeh rendition. The C/Y 50/1.7 in particular can give you harsh bokeh when giving it tough backgrounds wide open. This can be a negative with this lens.

Flickr (external link)

  
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jetcode
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Aug 10, 2011 21:33 |  #20

Nothing like real images to tell the story well!!! Nice work BlueTsunami. Crisp is the word that comes to mind. Good example of busy bokeh too.




  
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BlueTsunami
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Aug 10, 2011 23:06 |  #21

Thanks, Jetcode! Here's an example I was looking for in regards to how well the C/Y 50/1.7 can resolve when taking great care with it. This particular photo involved a crappy tripod on a 2 second timer with Mirror Lockup stopped down to around f/8 or beyond (probably f/11)...

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image%2fjpeg'


This is on a Rebel XT too (8 Megapixels). I can only image how well it can resolve on a larger resolution and better quality sensor.

Flickr (external link)

  
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jetcode
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Aug 10, 2011 23:48 |  #22

Here are some 50/1.7 shots in infrared using a modified 5DII.

Forest in Water

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO


Chasing Coffee in the Columbia River Gorge at 60Mph on f/8
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO



  
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jdizzle
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Aug 11, 2011 00:47 |  #23

You guys really know how to sell Zeiss! :lol:;) Anyways, I just got a 35 f2 and put in a order for the 50 f2 MP. The next lens is the 100 f2 MP and I'll wait for the 25 2.8 ZE next year.




  
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rusty.jg
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Aug 11, 2011 02:47 |  #24

BlueTsunami wrote in post #12913962 (external link)
Thanks, Jetcode! Here's an example I was looking for in regards to how well the C/Y 50/1.7 can resolve when taking great care with it. This particular photo involved a crappy tripod on a 2 second timer with Mirror Lockup stopped down to around f/8 or beyond (probably f/11)...

This is on a Rebel XT too (8 Megapixels). I can only image how well it can resolve on a larger resolution and better quality sensor.

Wow! Definitely no question of detail capture there - can almost feel that concrete! Thanks for the heads up on "nervous" bokeh wide open. I have thought about tubes for macro and that would give the 1.7 an extra arrow in the quiver.

Are you able to give me an idea of the MFD?


jetcode wrote in post #12914187 (external link)
Here are some 50/1.7 shots in infrared using a modified 5DII.

Forest in Water
IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

Like the effect in water. Also good to know its a performer for IR. I have a modified 5Dc and I currently cant really use the 2/35 as it has a faint hotspot.


to be OR NOT to be = 1 (which is "to be" so that one's cleared up at last ;-)a)
www.VividCornwall.co.u​k (external link) (external link)
Sony Nex-5n (x2) / Metabones EF-NEX Smart Adapter / Canon 10-22mm / Canon 100mm Macro / Sigma 18-50mm

  
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jetcode
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Aug 11, 2011 11:11 |  #25

Rusty here are the MFD's to every Zeiss lenses made in the last 50 years I would say. Not sure how far back the catalog goes.

http://lenses.zeiss.co​m …vice/download_c​enter.html (external link)




  
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rusty.jg
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Aug 11, 2011 11:14 |  #26

jetcode wrote in post #12916657 (external link)
Rusty here are the MFD's to every Zeiss lenses made in the last 50 years I would say. Not sure how far back the catalog goes.

http://lenses.zeiss.co​m …vice/download_c​enter.html (external link)


Wow thanks - thats gonna be useful in the future.


to be OR NOT to be = 1 (which is "to be" so that one's cleared up at last ;-)a)
www.VividCornwall.co.u​k (external link) (external link)
Sony Nex-5n (x2) / Metabones EF-NEX Smart Adapter / Canon 10-22mm / Canon 100mm Macro / Sigma 18-50mm

  
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crazeazn
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Aug 11, 2011 11:35 |  #27

I love my c/y zeiss 50 1.4 but the bokeh can be a bit busy at nearfield. I think the MTF shows that it will excel at infinity? This photo is at f/2.

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6126/6013306539_6c235480d8_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/crazeazn/601330​6539/  (external link)
JLH_9790 (external link) by crazeazn (external link), on Flickr

John H.
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jetcode
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Aug 11, 2011 12:45 |  #28

MTF's are measured in some form of clinical setting and do not reflect the artistic characteristics of a lens. They represent the transfer function of light through lens across the frame.




  
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bpark42
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Aug 11, 2011 18:05 |  #29

Actually MTF's can tell you something about bokeh quality.

From a Luminous Landscape article:
One of the areas of image quality that MTF can help determine is bokeh. This is a Japanese word used to describe the manner in which a lens reproduces the out of focus areas of an image. Some lenses are harsh in this regard, while others produce a much more pleasing out of focus image. This is where the meridonial and sagital lines come in, and as you'll recall are represented by the dotted and dashed lines. The closer these lines are to each other the more pleasing the bokeh of the lens. Fascinating, huh?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com …s/understanding​-mtf.shtml (external link)




  
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jdizzle
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Aug 11, 2011 18:22 |  #30

jetcode wrote in post #12917234 (external link)
MTF's are measured in some form of clinical setting and do not reflect the artistic characteristics of a lens. They represent the transfer function of light through lens across the frame.

I did not know that but, I don't evaluate my lenses in detail as some of you guys. :)




  
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Considering Zeiss 2/50MP with a 2/35 - complement or conflict?
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