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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 20 Aug 2011 (Saturday) 20:38
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LENS Return Policy Question

 
TheAnt
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Aug 21, 2011 08:54 |  #16

KenjiS wrote in post #12971129 (external link)
Let me play devils advocate for a moment...

First off most camera stores, at least local ones, have 1-2 copies of ANY lens and they usually let customers play around with them, And then sell that lens as brand new in box anyways....And usually you're paying a good 10% markup on said lens..Sometimes they even put a return back out on the shelf as brand new too to be resold to another customer...Yes, Seriously, So guess what? You buy a "New" lens at a local store and its probubly been sitting there a year or two and has been played with by a few hundred people...

Its not just local retailers, theres some evidence that some online retailers, Not necessarily B&H or Adorama, but Amazon has resold returned products as "new" before, IE a guy here got a 70-200 f/4L in a 70-200 f/2.8L IS II box from Amazon, Other people have had similar times getting lenses with dust or that show they are not quite "Factory fresh".....In reality, most users wont even bat an eye about this unless the thing has very OBVIOUSLY been used heavily...

As for renting, you're paying how much out of your pocket to rent 2 lenses and etc etc etc... Not the most economical thing

Stores like B&H and Adorama have 30-day no restocking fee no hassle return policies for a reason, They want you to be satisfied even if it is YOUR mistake or if you ordered the wrong lens, The overhead and cost of dealing with returned merchandise is simply part of their operational expenses...Both are large companies and both can take a little hit...

Do you know why? Because when you go to buy another lens, you're going to remember that B&H and Adorama have a great return policy and dont give you 5 gallons of **** to return something, Meaning you're likely to do business with them again when you buy another lens...

If returns and that hurt the bottom line hard enough, then yes, they would charge a hefty restocking fee like most local stores do, The difference is B&H or Adorama are massive companies and can absorb the cost whereas your tiny local store cannot and has to charge a restocking fee because they'd go out of business otherwise


Dont feel bad about it, Order both and return the one you dislike/hate/etc, Its really not a big deal

-edit- and yes, I'm guilty of returning lenses for reasons besides "Defective" But you know what? If I did not have the option to return something, I'd never buy it in the first place


I completely agree with this. Stores know that sometimes you'll purchase a couple of lenses just to test one out for a couple days. Like mentioned, they offer 30 day guaranteed returns for a reason. There is NOTHING unethical about this at all.


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paddler4
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Aug 21, 2011 09:03 |  #17

Ask yourself: when you buy a new lens, would you like to receive one that has been farmed out to an unknown number of unknown people for a trial? I wouldn't. If you use a lens, it's USED. Buying it, using it, and pretending it is new when you return it is not an ethical way to treat either the merchant or other customers.

If you don't know which you want, rent them from a reputable firm or simply go to a bricks and mortar store with your camera body and try out theirs in the store.


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ct1co2
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Aug 21, 2011 09:04 |  #18

feetdown wrote in post #12970646 (external link)
I agree, I dont want to screw the store up, but whos to say your going to get a legitimate copy that works properly when you rent? Could be a waste of time and money....

Have you rented lenses before? Get them from lensrentals.com and you won't have issues. I've rented multiple times, and each time it looks brand spankin new and works flawlessly.

The only reason I'd return a lens to a retailer is if it was faulty. Whether it's within the store's return policy or not, I would not feel right buying 2 knowing I'd purposely be returning one...but that's just me.


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TheAnt
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Aug 21, 2011 09:14 |  #19

paddler4 wrote in post #12971882 (external link)
...would you like to receive one that has been farmed out to an unknown number of unknown people for a trial ... If you use a lens, it's USED. ...

... simply go to a bricks and mortar store with your camera body and try out theirs in the store.

So, its ok to go into the store and USE a lens, which has obviously been USED by tons of people. And then it's ok for said store to sell it NEW to you? There is absolutely NO difference in purchasing to test or going into a store to test. If you go to brick and mortar shops to test lenses to purchase, whatever you purchase WILL have been used by multiple people before you buy it.

I've worked in retail my whole life. I never had a problem with customers who purchase something to see if it's what they're really looking for. There's no way you can do tests such as real life performance in store. Renting is also an uneconomical idea if you're planning on dropping $2000. That extra couple hundred $$$ you're spending to rent a lens or two for a couple days, including shipping, the rental insurance, and the price of the rental, really goes a long way.


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JonK
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Aug 21, 2011 10:02 |  #20

Only once did I return a lens. It was when I bought a 70-200 2.8L IS. The reason for returning (exchange, actually) was because the 70-200 2.8L II went from "Not Available" to "In Stock" at B&H. What you're proposing is lame. At that rate, I think I might buy a Lamborghini and a VW Jetta and return whichever one doesn't work out for me.


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KenjiS
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Aug 21, 2011 12:33 |  #21

paddler4 wrote in post #12971882 (external link)
Ask yourself: when you buy a new lens, would you like to receive one that has been farmed out to an unknown number of unknown people for a trial? I wouldn't. If you use a lens, it's USED. Buying it, using it, and pretending it is new when you return it is not an ethical way to treat either the merchant or other customers.

If you don't know which you want, rent them from a reputable firm or simply go to a bricks and mortar store with your camera body and try out theirs in the store.

See what i JUST said above, Most "new" lenses at most small brick and mortar camera stores are indeed used, The store has opened them, handed them out to potential customers to play with, and are by your and EVERY OTHER PERSON HERES definition "used" but are still sold as brand new items in box

Is what you're doing any more "ethical"? Chewing up a sales persons time with absolutely NO intention of buying jack-**** anything from the brick and mortar retailer? Thats more ethical? Really?


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KenjiS
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Aug 21, 2011 12:36 |  #22

JonK wrote in post #12972079 (external link)
Only once did I return a lens. It was when I bought a 70-200 2.8L IS. The reason for returning (exchange, actually) was because the 70-200 2.8L II went from "Not Available" to "In Stock" at B&H. What you're proposing is lame. At that rate, I think I might buy a Lamborghini and a VW Jetta and return whichever one doesn't work out for me.

Quite a few car dealers in the past have offered time periods where if you're not completely satisfied with the car purchase you can swap it out for another car on the lot..not sure how often it still happens though..

Besides, By everyone elses definition here most cars on a new lot would be "used" as most of them have been opened and driven around the lot or taken on a test drive :rolleyes:


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JonK
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Aug 21, 2011 13:19 |  #23

KenjiS wrote in post #12972684 (external link)
Quite a few car dealers in the past have offered time periods where if you're not completely satisfied with the car purchase you can swap it out for another car on the lot..not sure how often it still happens though..

Besides, By everyone elses definition here most cars on a new lot would be "used" as most of them have been opened and driven around the lot or taken on a test drive :rolleyes:

Having worked at a dealership you will have demo cars which are priced accordingly. Cars that were loaners were allowed to accumulate 1,500 - 3,000 miles before being pulled from the loaner program and sold as a demo car. But the dealership forecasts how many they will do that to and takes that into their inventory and expenses. If people just decide to buy cars drive them for a few hundred miles and then decide you like something else all the time, the dealers would be out of business. How many people do you actually know drove a car for 15 days and took it back because they didn't like it? I don't know any. I know dealers say you can do that, but...


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henryp
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Aug 21, 2011 13:41 |  #24

feetdown wrote in post #12970684 (external link)
And I dont think that they would actually lose money...The mark up on these lens is pretty high...

The markup is minuscule. Your statement is entirely incorrect. I am sorry you are so ill informed about this industry but reality is not as you imagine.

And, if a thing is, as others have suggested, unethical, it's unethical whether the victim (store) is harmed slightly or substantially IMO. YMMV.

KenjiS wrote in post #12971129 (external link)
....And usually you're paying a good 10% markup on said lens..

I'd like to journey to the galaxy where this remarkable and unattainable markup exists. It's certainly not on Earth or anywhere else in our solar system I know of.

KenjiS wrote in post #12971129 (external link)
Other people have had similar times getting lenses with dust ...

Internal dust is no proof a lens was other than brand new when received by an end-user customer.

Roger Cicala wrote in post #12971598 (external link)
1) you must return it with every bit of packaging, inserts, etc. and 1) refurbs are always sold without the original packaging, in a plain white box usually.

1) If we're to return a lens to our supplier for full credit we must return it that way. This return policy provision does not say or suggest or imply what you ascribe to it.
1 redux) White box lenses are brand new lenses originally packaged as camera + lens kits which have been removed from the kit. A refurb is not packed in a white box and is not a "white box" product.


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jdramirez
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Aug 21, 2011 15:55 |  #25

paddler4 wrote in post #12971882 (external link)
Ask yourself: when you buy a new lens, would you like to receive one that has been farmed out to an unknown number of unknown people for a trial? I wouldn't. If you use a lens, it's USED. Buying it, using it, and pretending it is new when you return it is not an ethical way to treat either the merchant or other customers.

If you don't know which you want, rent them from a reputable firm or simply go to a bricks and mortar store with your camera body and try out theirs in the store.

Keep this in mind. The 50D had micro AF adjustment. The 60D doesn't and you have to get a 7D or better to find that feature, which is really nothing more than a firmware upgrade.

The tolerance level for many lenses and bodies can lead to front/rear focusing with any given lens/body combination. If it was such an issue, then Canon should put AF microadjustment in all their cameras. At present, people are trying to find the right fit for their camera because of this exclusion.




  
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Aug 21, 2011 16:34 |  #26

I've bought plenty of lenses from Adorama and B&H. I've never sent one back, but I always felt that returning was an option if the lens didn't meet my expectations. If you're not sure what you want, rent.


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Aug 21, 2011 17:04 |  #27

henryp wrote in post #12972923 (external link)
The markup is minuscule. Your statement is entirely incorrect. I am sorry you are so ill informed about this industry but reality is not as you imagine.

And, if a thing is, as others have suggested, unethical, it's unethical whether the victim (store) is harmed slightly or substantially IMO. YMMV.

I'd like to journey to the galaxy where this remarkable and unattainable markup exists. It's certainly not on Earth or anywhere else in our solar system I know of.

Internal dust is no proof a lens was other than brand new when received by an end-user customer.

1) If we're to return a lens to our supplier for full credit we must return it that way. This return policy provision does not say or suggest or imply what you ascribe to it.
1 redux) White box lenses are brand new lenses originally packaged as camera + lens kits which have been removed from the kit. A refurb is not packed in a white box and is not a "white box" product.

Henry - good to hear the real facts rather than speculation


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KenjiS
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Aug 21, 2011 18:44 |  #28

henryp wrote in post #12972923 (external link)
I'd like to journey to the galaxy where this remarkable and unattainable markup exists. It's certainly not on Earth or anywhere else in our solar system I know of.

A local dealer of mine marks up lenses 10% usually, IE, they wanted $1900 for the 50-500 OS versus the $1700 every other retailer sold it for and wanted $2750 for the 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, I was not speaking in general, just that some local dealers do apply a pretty big markup on lenses

Unless they discontinued this practice, its still in place, At least on Canon lenses...


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wayne.robbins
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Aug 21, 2011 22:48 |  #29

feetdown wrote in post #12969980 (external link)
.....

Nice... Uh, it looks like someone was embarrassed by what they posted online and decided to remove all traces of it. Could not you have just edited slightly rather than remove the entire thing?

KenjiS wrote in post #12971129 (external link)
Let me play devils advocate for a moment...

First off most camera stores, at least local ones, have 1-2 copies of ANY lens and they usually let customers play around with them, And then sell that lens as brand new in box anyways....And usually you're paying a good 10% markup on said lens..Sometimes they even put a return back out on the shelf as brand new too to be resold to another customer...Yes, Seriously, So guess what? You buy a "New" lens at a local store and its probubly been sitting there a year or two and has been played with by a few hundred people...
...
-edit- and yes, I'm guilty of returning lenses for reasons besides "Defective" But you know what? If I did not have the option to return something, I'd never buy it in the first place

Different part of the country where I live. The only local store that sells lenses for Canon's only sells new Sigmas, and at about 20 to 30% markup over B&H. I know they accept returns for unhappiness, etc, so, even with the high markup, one does not know if you are honestly getting a new lens, or a slightly used, returned lens. They also appear to sell- perhaps on consigment, used lenses- including Canon brands, Tamron, Tokina, and a few other- but very limited selection. I think most people in this area shop online for stuff- because local is so so limited. Or they travel to larger cities nearby, you know, within an hour or three.
Personally, I think it is wrong to buy two different lenses and send the one back that you like the least- because it may very well be the lens that someone else gets- as a new lens. To me, if I pay for a new lens, I should get a new lens, not something sent back by someone else because they don't want it. I want the first fingerprints on it to be my own! If you buy both with the intention of buying both and keeping both, that's probably a little different. Otherwise, I think you should take the loss, and sell it as used, because it is. Or maybe you should consider buying used in the first place. Choose which one you believe is more likely to serve you better, try that one for a while, sell it if you don't like it, and then go for the other.

Or find a good local camera store within a few hours drive...
Or go ahead and do the other thing- and rent one if you feel the need to try one out.


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KenjiS
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Aug 21, 2011 22:52 |  #30

Or buy one and try it out, if it doesnt work, return for the other...


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LENS Return Policy Question
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