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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 02 Sep 2011 (Friday) 11:38
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Why does it take years for new FF's, but entry level bodies are out every year?

 
pwm2
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Sep 05, 2011 01:56 |  #76

But the issue here is of course why a subject "Why does it take years for a new FF [...]" would end up in a debate of 5D vs 7D image quality.


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kcbrown
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Sep 05, 2011 02:44 |  #77

pwm2 wrote in post #13052455 (external link)
But the issue here is of course why a subject "Why does it take years for a new FF [...]" would end up in a debate of 5D vs 7D image quality.

Because it's the 7D's fault that Canon has been holding back on the 5D release schedule? :lol:


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
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Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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kcbrown
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Sep 05, 2011 02:47 |  #78

Hogloff wrote in post #13050387 (external link)
Image quality is not only about sharpness and noise, but also about how well the camera handles slight changes in tonality, like the subtle hues of a fading sky during twighlight. This is where I find the images from a 5d2 do blow away the harsh images from a 7d. I've used each extensively meaning I tried as best as I could to post process the images and my conclusion is the 5d2 is much better for the types of photos I make and that is landscapes where sharpness, low noise and nice tonality are king.

Interesting observation about that specific tonality difference. I've not had an opportunity to see that in action, but it's something I can believe easily enough.

I don't suppose ETTR on the 7D helped (or were you already doing that in both cameras?)...


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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jonneymendoza
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Sep 05, 2011 02:53 |  #79

what do u think of this pic i took using a 5dmk2

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6088/6113521073_708a6633bd_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/josh1408/611352​1073/  (external link)
IMG_5260.jpg (external link) by jonneymendoza (external link), on Flickr

Canon 5dmkIII | Canon 85L 1.2 | Sigma 35mm ART 1.4|Canon 16-35mm L 2.8 |Canon 24-70mm L f2.8 | Canon 70-200mm F2.8L MK2 | Canon 430EX MK2 Flickr (external link)

  
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mtimber
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Sep 05, 2011 04:07 |  #80

kcbrown wrote in post #13050581 (external link)
Okay, let me ask you this:

What kind of controlled test would you set up to conclusively show, once and for all, that the 5D2's image quality is so much better than the 7D's that the 7D can't even compete with the 5D2 in that respect?

I do not need to, it is very clear when it comes to editing.

That is the test.

5d2 straight out of camera pretty spot on.

7d straight out of camera requires heavy processing and still does not match the quality of the 5d2.

Different sensors, different quality of image, it really is as simple as that.


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bohdank
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Sep 05, 2011 09:17 |  #81

I had both and there is no question that the 5DII is noticeably better for what I normally shoot, high ISO, concerts and events. So much so, I replaced the 7D with another 5DII.


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kcbrown
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Sep 05, 2011 14:28 |  #82

bohdank wrote in post #13053329 (external link)
I had both and there is no question that the 5DII is noticeably better for what I normally shoot, high ISO, concerts and events. So much so, I replaced the 7D with another 5DII.

Yeah, in your case you need every bit of high ISO performance you can get, and that extra stop of performance is significant for you. You have no problem going with a shallower depth of field to get it, so the 5D2 is pretty much as good as it gets at that price or less.

And the autofocus system apparently works well enough for you, so there's no objections on that front (I have no idea what your keeper rate is from it, though; for all I know, you're being forced to put up with the 5D2's autofocus system because nothing else even close to that price gets you the noise performance you want).

Yours is definitely a case where the 5D2 is the best tool Canon offers that you can afford.


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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jonneymendoza
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Sep 05, 2011 15:07 |  #83

kcbrown wrote in post #13054604 (external link)
Yeah, in your case you need every bit of high ISO performance you can get, and that extra stop of performance is significant for you. You have no problem going with a shallower depth of field to get it, so the 5D2 is pretty much as good as it gets at that price or less.

And the autofocus system apparently works well enough for you, so there's no objections on that front (I have no idea what your keeper rate is from it, though; for all I know, you're being forced to put up with the 5D2's autofocus system because nothing else even close to that price gets you the noise performance you want).

Yours is definitely a case where the 5D2 is the best tool Canon offers that you can afford.

nicely said IMO.


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bohdank
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Sep 05, 2011 16:00 |  #84

It may surprise some but my keeper rate (in focus) is so high that any misses are inconsequential. In other words I do not take insurance shots in fear of OOF takes. I throw away a lot of shots just due to them being boring or repetitive.

Usually my misses are my fault where I locked on to the microphone instead of the eyes, for example. Changing the focusing screen to the precision screen has pretty much eliminated that problem since I can see where the camera is focusing much better. Complete misses.... maybe 1 or 2 a show. I also shoot in AI Servo, exclusively.

I KNOW the 7D has a better AF for certain type of shooting but, for what I shoot, it isn't necessary ( it would not improve my keeper rate). On a side note, in low light I found the 5DII AF (center point) works better than the 7D points.

For me, the 5DII is/was the better camera and although each has it's advantages over the other, there are areas where usage would overlap. Very fast action such as pro snowboarding, the 7D is clearly the way to go for it's AF. The 5DII can and does do many sports well. I shot a pro road cycling event and never wished I had brought or had a 7D with me. The 5DII's AF was up to the task. So, there are sports, I would venture most sports that people shoot, where the 5DII would work satisfactorily.

Where ultimate IQ and high ISO performance is the requirement, the 5DII comes out on top.

So, the only shooting where the 7D outperforms the 5DII might be certain specific sports where the 5DII's AF would struggle.

This is my opinion based on having lived with a 7D for about 6 months.


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pwm2
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Sep 05, 2011 16:04 |  #85

bohdank wrote in post #13054982 (external link)
Changing the focusing screen to the precision screen has pretty much eliminated that problem since I can see where the camera is focusing much better.

You are making me consider a focus screen test :)


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
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HappySnapper90
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Sep 05, 2011 20:29 |  #86

kf095 wrote in post #13041430 (external link)
Rebels don't have additional AF points for aperture 2.8 and wider. 5D does.

This is not correct. Both the 5D-series and The Drebels (XTi and newer) have the same sensitivity center AF point which is 3 times more accurate when using an f/2.8 or faster lens. In fact they have the same exact focusing system and points for normal 1-shot focusing! Except the 5D-series has 6 invisible points used only during ai-servo and are all around the center AF point.




  
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jdizzle
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Sep 05, 2011 20:45 |  #87

Canonswhitelensesrule wrote in post #13043662 (external link)
Nevermind about the 5D III...what about the 1Ds Mk IV?

Five D Schmive D...1D/1Ds bodies rule!!

This I agree with. It's almost four years since the announcment of the 1Ds III. Time to upgrade that first. Then follow it with a 5D III. I would buy four 5D III bodies if Canon could simply upgrade those tiny micrscopic AF points on the 5D II. ;)




  
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jdizzle
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Sep 05, 2011 20:50 |  #88

eskimochaos wrote in post #13046271 (external link)
Maybe I'm not a DOF whore.....and chose it for IQ, ISO, and correct focal length for my L's. FWIW, in good light the outer points work just fine for static objects.

You need to try a 1Ds III. No focus recomposing at all. ;)




  
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Stump
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Sep 05, 2011 20:54 |  #89

What is it about the 5D II that's so outdated? What features/updates are expected? I don't see what all the anticipation is about really. I'm going to go ahead and get a 5D II as I don't see the mkIII as anything to wait for. I love my 5Dc. The only complaint I have is that the LCD could be bigger.


6D - 50 1.8 - 50 1.4 - 70-200F4L

  
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HappySnapper90
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Sep 05, 2011 20:59 |  #90

Stump wrote in post #13056369 (external link)
What is it about the 5D II that's so outdated? What features/updates are expected?

What needs to be updated, and was expected last time, was a new focusing system because what's in it now is the same as the Drebel lines (except for the 6 invisible points only used in ai-servo) while the 40D and newer have had all cross type AF sensors and the 7D now has 19 points all cross types.

What would be nice to keep up with Nikon is now pattern noise when brightening shadows, more dynamic range (related to shadows noise), flip-out LCD, maybe 5 fps.




  
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Why does it take years for new FF's, but entry level bodies are out every year?
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