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Thread started 16 Sep 2011 (Friday) 21:27
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5D or t2i with magic lantern?

 
jumpsoutofplanes
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Sep 16, 2011 21:27 |  #1

Hey everyone. I'm new here, and will most likely become a regular from here on out. ;) Anyways I recently took a photography class and have decided to go for a degree geared towards it. I also have a lot of connections in the extreme sports photography arena, so it looks like I might be moving in that direction if I choose. However I intend to use this camera for damn near everything else

I'll be coming into some serious extra cash here in the next week or so and I wanted to go all out and get then best I can buy. Now I'm sure it's reasonable to say that if anyone had to pick between the 5D and t2i it would be a no brainier. However I've got a couple of people telling me that 5D isn't worth it when magic lantern has made the t2i/3i, 60D, ect... function damn close to it, and that I should just spend the money on lenses...

I can see what they're talking about, but there's got to be some compromise lurking below the surface.

I hate compromise unless it's something I don't care about or will never use (i.e. wipers on my head lights), and I hate anything less then the best, (buy the best once, cry once and be done with it) but... that doesn't mean I won't deal hunt. If I can have it at 1/4 the price and function the same... you might have my attention.

So what do you think? I know I'm a newb but that' never stopped me in the past. ;)


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sunking39
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Sep 16, 2011 23:59 |  #2

If your direction is extreme sports, I wouldnt recommend the 5D, becuse of FPS and autofocus. For everything else, the 5D is a much better camera.

Why havent you considered the 7D?, from what I can tell, that would be the camera for you.
But I am confused, are you interested in video or photos? And what do you want out of Magic Lantern?




  
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svarley
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Sep 17, 2011 00:40 |  #3

1d4 is what you want. You did say "serious cash" in your original post. You also mentioned extreme sports. Neither the 5d nor the t2i will satisfy you for sporting endeavors.




  
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jumpsoutofplanes
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Sep 17, 2011 09:29 |  #4

sunking39 wrote in post #13116787 (external link)
If your direction is extreme sports, I wouldnt recommend the 5D, becuse of FPS and autofocus. For everything else, the 5D is a much better camera.

Why haven't you considered the 7D?, from what I can tell, that would be the camera for you.
But I am confused, are you interested in video or photos? And what do you want out of Magic Lantern?

First of all, I really appreciate both of your help. :) So I'll attempt to explain myself a bit better in order to give you a clearer understanding of what I'm "shooting for". ;)

I have a lot of hobbies/interests, and I know damn well that there's never really a be-all-end-all for all situation. There just isn't. However if you do your research (That is if you have the time wade through forums for months on end) you'll find you can get pretty close but never fully there. It's just the way things seem to be. Agree?

Secondly I know how annoying enthusiastic newbies can be, so thanks for the help, and patients. I won't BS you and pretend that I understand any and all terminology, and suggestions regarding subtle naunches you throw my way, but I understand a pretty fair amount of it.

OK so, with that in mind I'm essentially looking for the closest thing to a be-all-end-all for all situation. The 7D looks outstanding, however after being show what ML can do with both video and image quality (And not being available for the 7D, at least not yet) it's caused me to shy away from it.

Enters the Mark series. From everything I've read, and seen thus far the 5D seems likes it's damn near close to being able to consistently deliver the highest quality in nearly every situation it's put in. Yes?

This camera will be use for both image and video, and will be used from everything from personal use (Mostly marco shots but the lens dictates that, as well as landscapes and deserted buildings), to school work/photojournalism, to live events and sports (skiing, and skydiving/BASE, ect... in the case of skydiving/BASE mostly helmet mounted, but not limited to) related work. The 1D4 looks like a killer set up for all this, but again from the admittedly limited reading I've done, while it seems to be good on the sports/live events side of the house, it seems to take a step back in everything else when compared to the 5D. Hmmm...

I want one camera I can go to for just about everything, something that I can learn with and that won't hold me back with it's lack of capabilities.

From prior experience, I've found that if you really get into something you need several "things" to cover all that bases. So another words in order to cover the full spectrum of what I'm looking for I'm guessing that what I really need is not one, but two cameras, each used for specific jobs. Making the ideal set up look something like:

1 5D pared with a 1D4 (Yes I did say "serious cash" and meant it.;))
or
1 5D paired with a 7D or 60D

Or should I just buy the 5D and load ML on it and call it a day? This is what I was originality thinking of doing to be honest, and couldn't see the drawbacks of doing so. And regarding the FPS issue with the 5D, ML can supposedly max the 5D out somewhere around 70 FPS... what's the problem then? That out performs the 1D4 if I'm correct (Which ML is not written for last I checked). Right? And as far as Auto focus... OK I'm not sure exactly how to get around that one, but I'd be willing to bet it can be worked with.

Hopefully I've answered your questions to satisfaction and clarity. If not just fire some more Q's back at me. Thanks guys!


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gorby
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Sep 17, 2011 10:21 |  #5

can you explain what magic lantern does a bit?

i read the wiki for for it and i still don't understand it


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sunking39
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Sep 17, 2011 13:55 |  #6

Confession: I'm not very familiar with ML either.

But I can tell you this:
You say: "5D isn't worth it when magic lantern has made the t2i/3i, 60D, ect... function damn close to it"
The truth of the matter is that even without ML the 5Dii is not really worth it. The main reason the 5Dii is so expensive, is the full frame (ff) sensor and no matter what version of ML you have, that will never change.

Are you clear on the differences between FF and crop?

As i said I don't know much about ML, but I like the ff in the 5d and ML wont add that to a camera that does not have it. And I like the AF in the 7D and ML wont add it toa camera that does not have it.
If money is not the issue I'd rather have the best hardware available (ie: a 1D series camera) than a crappy camera with great software




  
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jumpsoutofplanes
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Sep 17, 2011 14:28 |  #7

gorby wrote in post #13118196 (external link)
can you explain what magic lantern does a bit?

i read the wiki for for it and i still don't understand it

Well I'll try my best. From what I understand it's like this. Magic Lantern is a free software application that was originally released for the Mark II, and specifically the Mark II. The primary objective was to enhance the video and audio functions of the camera. And on mid grade thee cameras it also enhances the ability to take photos. This (photo enhancement) can also be done on the MKII but it requires some programming skill that I don't have... but I have friends who do. :D

In a sense ML will allow your camera to max the hardware out, sometime to the point of crashing. However this normally only happens while takeing photos on some of the midgrade camers like the t2i/t3i/60D. It doesn't always happen but every now and then it's an issue. It does not damage the camera though. Think of it as the removing the governor off your engine, but not being able to hurt it. ;) What seems to happen though is that when you try to max out the camera in some features, say FPS, problems sometime arise, but if you can keep it around 65-ish, things seem to still run smooth.

Watch these videos the get an idea of how it works:
1.
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=mMpJdMs319w (external link)
2.
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=NS77CiN2WXo (external link)


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jumpsoutofplanes
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Sep 17, 2011 14:37 |  #8

sunking39 wrote in post #13118848 (external link)
Are you clear on the differences between FF and crop?


If money is not the issue I'd rather have the best hardware available (ie: a 1D series camera) than a crappy camera with great software


First answer: No. But... If there's any place to get an answer it's here. :)

Second part... OK... I want to agree with you because the 1D4 seems to fit what I'm going for even more (broad spectrum use). However (and I realize this is a lot to ask) but could you look at the Amazon reviews and tell me why the reviews are inaccurate or do not apply to my situation? Because to be honest I'm not at the point where I can read between the lines of what going on in this arena yet. If you have the time to look over some of the negative reviews please let me know. You're input would by much appreciate. :D

Here's a link: http://www.amazon.com …/ref=cm_cr_pr_p​roduct_top (external link)


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cruleworld
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Sep 17, 2011 14:56 |  #9

You seem like a person who wants to learn and is willing to read so check out this article on the Full Frame vs. Crop situation: http://www.digital-photography-school.com …or-which-is-right-for-you (external link)

As for a T2i equaling a 5D Mark ii just by installing ML, that is a complete load of crap in my opinion. I am a T2i shooter due to financial restrictions. If you can afford a 5D Mark ii do it!

A T2i is an awesome camera, don't get me wrong. I love my T2i, I would only trade it for another camera that was better (who wouldn't?). Heck check out the site in my signature, all of those pictures were taken on my T2i. Again I want to stress there is nothing wrong with the T2i itself, the problem is you can get more so why not? Like you have said buy the best and then cry once due to money loss instead of crying twice because you don't have the best camera you could have gotten.


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paulkaye
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Sep 17, 2011 15:00 as a reply to  @ jumpsoutofplanes's post |  #10

:rolleyes:


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SaxonIV
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Sep 17, 2011 15:08 |  #11

You need to invest your serious cash in one of two ways.

First would be the 5D2 + 7D combo, and the rest on lenses. - advantage being full frame and the best portrait camera out there from the 5D2, two bodies, great autofocus and useful crop form the 7D.

Secondly you could pony up for the 1DmkIV and never look back. - this would be the situation if you absolutely need the best performance, do it all camera. It's crop, but 1.3, meaning closer to full frame while still giving you reach. It's go the best autofocus in the world, and it does video. Oh, and did I mention it's near indestructible?

If I were you I would go for a 7D, and lenses. From there decide if you want to sell it for a 1DmkIV, or just add a 5D/second 7D/maybe 1DmkIII.




  
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sunking39
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Sep 17, 2011 15:36 |  #12

First: http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Full-frame_digital_SLR (external link)
5D is (what many call) full frame.
T2i is a (1.6) crop.
7d is a (1.6) crop
1D mk iv is a crop (1.3)

As I said, the fullframe sensor is probably the only reason people buy a 5D mkii.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a 1D mk IV, not enough bang for the buck. Also I don't like it because its not really full frame and its not really a crop. But depending on the individual, it might be the camera for him.

As I said, I'd rather have a full frame 5Dmkii with no ML or a 7D crop camera with advanced autofocus with no ML, than another camera that doesn't offer these things with ML.

Maybe ML is making you loose perspective of what the different cameras actually offer you. Just as you hadn't noticed the sensor part of the choice, you have ruled out the 7D which is supposed to have an amazing autofocus.

The reason why I metion the 7D so much is because the autofocus and Frame Per Second, and price make it an ideal camera for a begginer that is interested in action sports, while the 5D is not really cut out for fast moving things. The 5D is good for landscapes and many other things, though.

PS: The mk iv reviews you posted look good to me 11.5 good reviews out of 14, seems like a good number. The negatives probably are exceptions that come from people who didn't know what to expect. Browse this forum for more reviews and explanations, use the search function.




  
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john_galt
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Sep 17, 2011 21:28 |  #13

buy all 3. see which ones you like. sell the one you dont want after trying them out. i had a 40d before the 5d, and as mentioned, the slower fps may seem limiting for extreme sports. i dont need high fps so wasnt a big deal for me


Gear: 5d iii, 17-40mm l, 24-70mm ii, 35mm 1.4 l, 50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 135mm l, 70-200mm ii l, 600ex-rt

  
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jumpsoutofplanes
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Sep 18, 2011 09:40 |  #14

sunking39 wrote in post #13119176 (external link)
First: http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Full-frame_digital_SLR (external link)
5D is (what many call) full frame.
T2i is a (1.6) crop.
7d is a (1.6) crop
1D mk iv is a crop (1.3)

As I said, the fullframe sensor is probably the only reason people buy a 5D mkii.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a 1D mk IV, not enough bang for the buck. Also I don't like it because its not really full frame and its not really a crop. But depending on the individual, it might be the camera for him.

As I said, I'd rather have a full frame 5Dmkii with no ML or a 7D crop camera with advanced autofocus with no ML, than another camera that doesn't offer these things with ML.

Maybe ML is making you loose perspective of what the different cameras actually offer you. Just as you hadn't noticed the sensor part of the choice, you have ruled out the 7D which is supposed to have an amazing autofocus.

The reason why I metion the 7D so much is because the autofocus and Frame Per Second, and price make it an ideal camera for a begginer that is interested in action sports, while the 5D is not really cut out for fast moving things. The 5D is good for landscapes and many other things, though.

PS: The mk iv reviews you posted look good to me 11.5 good reviews out of 14, seems like a good number. The negatives probably are exceptions that come from people who didn't know what to expect. Browse this forum for more reviews and explanations, use the search function.



OK so I read all the links you gave me( Josh and sunking) plus I watched some youtube videos to illustrate everything. Thanks for the information. It cleared up a lot. :D

I just want to address one thing before I move on:

"Maybe ML is making you loose perspective of what the different cameras actually offer you. Just as you hadn't noticed the sensor part of the choice, you have ruled out the 7D which is supposed to have an amazing autofocus."

Yes... I tend to jump in feet first. I'm an all in right from the get go kind of guy, and it can make a me loose perspective (And unintentionally piss off some pros and old timers at the same time) when doing so. It happens, but I try to keep it in check, by taking advice, as you'll see in a moment.

Now... after reading everything from all of you, I still want the 5D, however I'm seeing it as a second purchase now because it's not the most imminently needed of the three that were recommended. That is I'm seeing the 5D as a gift to myself and the 7D of 1D4 as the tool I need ATM but one hell of a nice toy as well. So I'm starting to think the 7D and a nice set of glass really would be the best place to start. I could buy the 1D4, and am still contemplating it, however I think what I'll do is talk to an acquaintance of mine who's a professional photographer as well as a pro extreme sports photographer, just to get his take. Now after all this you might be wondering why I didn't just do that in the first place... He's unbelievably hard to get a hold of, and from prior experience, forums tend to be the sleeper source of goldmines of information. Plus you're all easier to get a hold of. ;)

My only concern in doing this though it buying a whole set of lenses that suit the 7D or 1D4, and then find that they don't work as well on the 5D or vice verse. Or is this nothing I should be concerned about?

So what will I go with? I can't tell you yet, but I can say that I appreciate your help, and will continue to post questions from here on out. You've given me great first impression of this place. :D With in the month I suspect I'll know and we'll take it from there. I don't start my new semester in my chosen field until mid January, so I basically have till then to decided. Experience and talking with more people [LIke yourselves] will play the biggest part now since I already know what my focus is...

BTW can any of you recommend any really great stickies (or should-be-stikies)? There's two or three really great ones in this sub-forum that I'm going through right now, but if there were any that never made the cut that are sticking out in the back of your mind send them my way. Thanks everyone!


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Kento
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Sep 18, 2011 09:50 |  #15

Canon does a very good job of making sure there isnt "1 do it all camera", hate to break this to you.. but if you want to do it all, you will need to buy more than one camera, and thats a fact. Another important thing to remember is that DSLR cameras use a rolling shutter for video, that means they will warp the crap out of the image if you pan quickly left or right, something you do a lot of in extreme sports.


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5D or t2i with magic lantern?
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