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Thread started 23 Sep 2011 (Friday) 12:43
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Interior/new business photography for "new" client - copyright?

 
Akire
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Sep 23, 2011 12:43 |  #1

Sorry about starting another "what to charge" thread, but I'm really stumped on this one.

I work for a local company that has quite a few franchises on the west coast, and we are expanding now to the east coast. My position with this company has nothing to do with photography.

However, I was approached by my boss (knowing that I do freelance work) and asked to "contract with me" and bring my camera equipment to a new store opening to take some photos of the interior, signage, etc. They obviously will be using these photos to further market the company to potential franchisees, and perhaps use them in outside advertising and internal promotions.

I plan on charging them a flat fee for the job (somewhat based on what my normal hourly rate for shooting/editing) but I have no idea how to charge for releasing the copyright.. If i SHOULD release the copyright?

Help?


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Akire
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Sep 23, 2011 14:32 |  #2

They want the exclusive copyright.. no limitations on use. I have NEVER released my copyright before. :confused:


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JacobPhoto
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Sep 23, 2011 16:19 as a reply to  @ Akire's post |  #3

Out of curiosity, how much does a new franchise cost?

Off the top of my head, I'd drop a figure around $5k. My guess is that the franchise fee is no less than $25k.... if a company is going to pinch pennies below $5k, even if you already work for them, it's really not worth it for you. Chances are, they'll find a local guy who will do it for $500 to $1000 (and doesn't know what he's given away).


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Akire
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Sep 23, 2011 16:32 |  #4

Wow.. I don't think I could get away with even close to that number. I was honestly thinking of like $500 bucks- they want 10 images (with my brand new 5D MkII). I work for them for $14/hr. :(

Franchises cost between 100k-300k.. so I know they SHOULD be able to pay for it...


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RDKirk
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Sep 25, 2011 09:27 |  #5

Akire wrote in post #13151513 (external link)
Sorry about starting another "what to charge" thread, but I'm really stumped on this one.

I work for a local company that has quite a few franchises on the west coast, and we are expanding now to the east coast. My position with this company has nothing to do with photography.

However, I was approached by my boss (knowing that I do freelance work) and asked to "contract with me" and bring my camera equipment to a new store opening to take some photos of the interior, signage, etc. They obviously will be using these photos to further market the company to potential franchisees, and perhaps use them in outside advertising and internal promotions.

I plan on charging them a flat fee for the job (somewhat based on what my normal hourly rate for shooting/editing) but I have no idea how to charge for releasing the copyright.. If i SHOULD release the copyright?

Help?

Did they actually state they wanted a copyright buy-out, or do they (merely) want exclusive and/or unlimited use? Those are not the same things as transferring copyright.

This is a professional job. They expect it to be a fully professional job, so they should also expect to pay a professional price. Your overhead may be lower than a full-time professional, but that should be the only difference in the fee to them. Consider your time and expenses at the same rate any other professional would consider them, and count everything.


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Markk9
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Sep 25, 2011 18:39 |  #6

You need to talk to an attorney before you sign anything.


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markd61
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Sep 25, 2011 21:57 |  #7

This is a very touchy situation for you.
What follows is purely my opinion but I have seen it many times and feel I am seeing it here.

As they are already paying you $14/hr they likely feel that they are giving you a bonus by "letting" you photograph "on the clock" and seeing your work used in their advertising. They already may see you as providing "work for hire".
It would also seem to them that if you could get serious money for your photography then you would not be working for them. Thus, by asking real prices and creating a contract you are seen as being a little arrogant and will generate some ill will.

When I was in this position many years ago I offended my employer by doing precisely what you are proposing. I am not saying you should not do it but be aware that may be the response.
You may want to practice your craft and then start working part-time and should your employer choose to hire you they may have a little more respect for what you are doing.

best of luck.




  
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Nightstalker
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Sep 26, 2011 01:37 |  #8

If you want to avoid a "work for hire" scenario make sure that you take a day off for the day that they want you to photograph the store - if you are being paid by them i.e. "on the clock" then it is likely that they may own the copyright in any case.


  
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RDKirk
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Sep 26, 2011 03:25 |  #9

markd61 wrote in post #13162446 (external link)
This is a very touchy situation for you.
What follows is purely my opinion but I have seen it many times and feel I am seeing it here.

As they are already paying you $14/hr they likely feel that they are giving you a bonus by "letting" you photograph "on the clock" and seeing your work used in their advertising. They already may see you as providing "work for hire".
It would also seem to them that if you could get serious money for your photography then you would not be working for them. Thus, by asking real prices and creating a contract you are seen as being a little arrogant and will generate some ill will.

When I was in this position many years ago I offended my employer by doing precisely what you are proposing. I am not saying you should not do it but be aware that may be the response.
You may want to practice your craft and then start working part-time and should your employer choose to hire you they may have a little more respect for what you are doing.

best of luck.

The OP said:

I was approached by my boss (knowing that I do freelance work) and asked to "contract with me"

"Contract with me" does not sound like they expect this to be work for hire.


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JacobPhoto
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Sep 26, 2011 14:12 as a reply to  @ RDKirk's post |  #10

so the company makes $100k to $300k for the right to operate a new store, but you think they are going to cry wolf if you charge them more than $500? They feel that the photos are worth 1/2 of 1% of the lowest franchise fee?

I wasn't a math major in college, but they either have really really really low expectations, or they aren't worth your time. Regardless of what your daily pay is, the original question is 'what are these photos worth'. I would say that good photography will help them sell 1 to 5 more franchises than horrible photography would, therefore, good photography SHOULD be worth several thousand dollars.

As I mentioned, my starting price would be $5,000. I'm sure they'd tell me I was crazy, and then I'd remind them that they will make 20 times their fee back with the first franchise they sell. What other industry offers 20-to-1 return on investment on the first purchase, with each additional purchase netting 50-to-1 or higher returns?


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Interior/new business photography for "new" client - copyright?
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