Why go full frame?

picturecrazy wrote in post #13178127
"The V12 passenger car Advantage" instead of buying a Camry
"The 8ft ground clearance monster Truck Advantage" instead of an SUV
"The 4800W Commercial Microwave Advantage" instead of a countertop residential microwave
"The Samurai Sword Advantage" instead of a paring knife to peel your fruits
"The 15 Ton Excavator Advantage" instead of using a shovel to plant your flowers.

Being an "Advantage" always depends on your situation and needs.

Some of those are good examples and some are not.

A full frame camera is not a bigger device that makes too large a hole in your yard. A sharper tipped shovel with diamond plating might be better.... Same with the sword example.

The first three, though are closer. If people want to spend more money to get a better result, no matter how much better, its THEIR choice.

DoF is a dumb example, IMO. But the file quality is a great example. I have owned a Rebel, a 7D, a 5D, and a 5DII. The difference in file quality (numerous characteristics) is OBVIOUS. DoF with intended perspective is even better.

Wow, this is a pretty heated debate.

The way I see it, and take this with a grain of salt as I am not a professional photographer, just an avid hobbiest... There are a couple reasons why people go full frame...

1. They are old school, and shot 35mm film... They tried shooting with a crop sensor, but felt overly restricted (i.e. a 24mm lense does not give the same fov they were expecting and want).
   
2. They read a lot of forums, want to buy the best they can within their budget (they have adequate funds to make the purchase), and from their "research" FF is the way to go without going to a true Professional Camera (ala 1D series).
   
3. They are gadget lovers, always looking for "the next best thing" and tend to upgrade their bodies quite often... They probably started with a Rebel, then stepped up to a XXD, and are now looking at the next step which is a FF camera...
   
4. The serious photograher... Probably been shooting with a XXXD, or XXD for awhile now... learned the limitations of his or her gear, found a definite need to step up to a full frame (i.e. improved image quality, shallower depth of field, high and low noise performance, true 35mm coverage, etc).
   
5. The gear trouble shooter... someone who probably started with a p&s, didn't get beautiful shots with that, stepped up to a XXXD dslr, thinking it would make their shots beautiful... was disappointed, stepped up to a XXD dslr to make their shots beautiful... was disappointed... stepped up to a FF dslr... and still disappointed... (cause they invested money in gear, and didn't invest time in technique and knowledge). haha, they probably have a lot of lenses too...

Higgs Boson wrote in post #13178146
great argument. i'm sold.

I'm sure you'll buy just about anything.

davidc502 wrote in post #13178116
[COLOR="Red"]Shallower depth of field. These days it can be compensated for in a couple of ways #1. Software #2. On APS-C increase the apature and decrease the focal lenght.

Are you the guy that posted up a terrible picture of a lens, that had really natural blurring applied to it?

Well the elephant in the room, is how much time would this waste you in a year?
Probably better off using that time to get a 2nd job, and buy yourself the kit to get the results you want SOOC.

rhys216 wrote in post #13178197
Are you the guy that posted up a terrible picture of a lens, that had really natural blurring applied to it?

Well the elephant in the room, is how much time would this waste you in a year?
Probably better off using that time to get a 2nd job, and buy yourself the kit to get the results you want SOOC.

Why? Because a 550D does everything you would need a camera to do, haven't you heard?

rhys216 wrote in post #13178197
Are you the guy that posted up a terrible picture of a lens, that had really natural blurring applied to it?

Well the elephant in the room, is how much time would this waste you in a year?
Probably better off using that time to get a 2nd job, and buy yourself the kit to get the results you want SOOC.

You're absolutely right rhys216.

davidc502 wrote in post #13178187
I'm sure you'll buy just about anything.

You got it. And I wanted a 5D.

Don't get me wrong, I have cost/benefit analysis running for some decisions as well. I'm not infinitely wealthy. But I can afford a 5DII without worrying about it.

And I know enough not to tell a Bugatti owner his choice is unfounded and unecessary just because he can afford it and I cannot.

I'm not arguing the merits and demerits of FF here. I just want to be an ass and tell you to knock it off with the opinion based arguments.

gorby wrote in post #13178201
Why? Because a 550D does everything you would need a camera to do, haven't you heard?

Well, I have heard/am hearing now that my eyes are open. It's great we have top notch, rich, educated folks like yourselves to teach everyone what they need to know about photography. Especially the part about what they should like and why. After all it's only your opinion that really counts around here.

Higgs Boson wrote in post #13178216
You got it. And I wanted a 5D.

Don't get me wrong, I have cost/benefit analysis running for some decisions as well. I'm not infinitely wealthy. But I can afford a 5DII without worrying about it.

And I know enough not to tell a Bugatti owner his choice is unfounded and unecessary just because he can afford it and I cannot.

I'm not arguing the merits and demerits of FF here. I just want to be an ass and tell you to knock it off with the opinion based arguments.

It looks like my opinions hit a little close to home, by the way you've reacted. It's okay.. hell, most people are in debt. Not like it's a sin or anything.

davidc502 wrote in post #13178234
Well, I have heard/am hearing now that my eyes are open. It's great we have top notch, rich, educated folks like yourselves to teach everyone what they need to know about photography. Especially the part about what they should like and why. After all it's only your opinion that really counts around here.

How about you stop making emotionally charged arguments, and instead focus on reality, and facts.

Btw, my first camera was a 550D, it's a very nice camera, but I found it limiting in many areas for how I like to shoot, but it does make a great starter camera indeed.

Edit:

Like your sig btw, can really tell you have a 1.6x chip on your shoulder, so where does your 550D fit in, compared to medium format?

We went all full frame last year and wont go back to a crop. Not that a crop is bad, its not, but full frame had some advantages for our business. One of the biggest factors for us was it was just easier to go this way. No more crop specialty lens. Now we can mount our lens line up on all of our cameras and get a true perspective of what they were ment to do.

We added the Mark111 and it took the 7d's place. The Mark111 is simply a better camera, dont fool yourself. And it gives us that crop advantage (fov).

On crop cameras you need a 17-55( tammy 17-50 is pretty good ) and a 10-22. Thats 2 extra lens for us that could not be used on the other bodies. While we liked the results, its just easier for us with 2 shooters running and gunnin at weddings to have the same bodies and swap the lens around. Crops have more noise than full frame. Especially if you miss the mark and get it slightly underexposed. Period end of conversation. Full frame is more forgiving in that regard.

All that being said, i liked the results we got with our crops. With the right glass you can get great results if you light the scene properly. If your slightly underexposed your in trouble where a full frame sensor is more forgiving. Guys that know how to light, and Lloyd is one of them, can get great results with a crop camera. We got great results from our crop cameras as well. But we tend to get better results with our full frame cameras especially when shooting for shallow depth and going wide at the same time--thats where full frame really has the advantage over a crop camera.

HOWEVER, i miss the 10-22 on the 7D. In my opinion theres nothing better than that. So a crop and a 10-22 and a 17-55 gives you ons of options.

davidc502 wrote in post #13178234
Well, I have heard/am hearing now that my eyes are open. It's great we have top notch, rich, educated folks like yourselves to teach everyone what they need to know about photography. Especially the part about what they should like and why. After all it's only your opinion that really counts around here.

Let's see, I made a post about why I went full frame, in a thread titled "Why go full frame?"

You are the mouthbreathing 'crop defense force' character who responded with a bunch of nonsense about your 550D.

It's great we have such educated folks here indeed!

gorby wrote in post #13178281
Let's see, I made a post about why I went full frame, in a thread titled "Why go full frame?"

You are the mouthbreathing 'crop defense force' character who responded with a bunch of nonsense about your 550D.

It's great we have such educated folks here indeed!

Defending crop sensors 1 day at at time against the forces of FF evil.

rhys216 wrote in post #13178256
Like your sig btw, can really tell you have a 1.6x chip on your shoulder, so where does your 550D fit in, compared to medium format?

I would ask you the same question... How does the crop sensor on the 5Dmk2 compare to the chip found in Medium format?

I realize you're trying here.... I do appreciate that.


David

davidc502 wrote in post #13178301
I would ask you the same question... How does the crop sensor on the 5Dmk2 compare to the chip found in Medium format?

David

It's as per your sig, but where does your 1.6x chip fit into the scale... iPhone camera?