Why go full frame?

stsva wrote in post #13181682
Yup, it sure is.

They are things that are inextricably linked.

ktownhero wrote in post #13181703
They are things that are inextricably linked.

That was my point - I'm glad you agree.

The funny thing is, fellas, a LOT more people than you think have ENGINE at the top of their evaluative criteria when it comes to cars. It is the STARTING point. Then which vehicle with a (V8...) should I get. All other features are secondary.

Same with a camera. I want a FULL FRAME camera. Now, which one am I going to get.

If you would like to discuss consumer behavior, buying processes, high and low involvement purchases and much more, let me know! I love talking about marketing and consumer psychologies.

So stroke each other all you want, doesn't make you correct.

edit: Two wrongs don't make a right. LOL!!

stsva wrote in post #13181418
People buy cameras, not sensors. You make some very questionable assumptions to reach an essentially absurd conclusion, that all full frame sensors can achieve a better image than all crop sensors, regardless of sensor generation or technology or the camera system in which the sensor is actually used, and without regard to actual shooting purpose and conditions. Even in terms of pixel-level image quality, your conclusion is invalid if you compare the original generation of full frame sensors to the current generation of crop sensors. As I said before, everything is relative. Focusing on a single criterion (I think yours is pixel-level image quality; perhaps I'm wrong) without consideration of other relevant factors, and then generalizing the result as you've done above, is of absolutely no value.

Your position is somewhat similar to the fellow who asserts that his 500 horsepower car is, under all conditions, better than a 200 horsepower car. He's obviously correct if horsepower is the only criterion for comparison; his assertion is obviously absurd if gas mileage is taken into account.

Bravo!!!

"Focusing on a single criterion (I think yours is pixel-level image quality; perhaps I'm wrong) without consideration of other relevant factors, and then generalizing the result as you've done above, is of absolutely no value."

If conjecture can be identified, it should be of "no value". < agreed

stsva wrote in post #13181719
That was my point - I'm glad you agree.

I don't see how we agree? To me, that's a completely invalid and vapid statement. It's not about "focusing on a single criteria", it's about focusing on the backbone of what makes a great camera a great camera (or a great car a great car). I don't understand why there's such a huge argument about this all of the time. It seems to me that people can't avoid taking it personally that there might be something better about something they don't own. Who cares? I shoot with an XSi, but I'm not going around hating on everybody that tells me a 7D or a 5DII is a better camera. I aspire to own one of those one day, but in the meantime I am in no way threatened by their opinion and continue to take fantastic pictures with the body I currently own.

These "discussions" seem to have far less to do with actual facts and more to do with psychology. It's really tiring.

Higgs Boson wrote in post #13181729
The funny thing is, fellas, a LOT more people than you think have ENGINE at the top of their evaluative criteria when it comes to cars. It is the STARTING point. Then which vehicle with a (V8...) should I get. All other features are secondary.

Same with a camera. I want a FULL FRAME camera. Now, which one am I going to get.

If you would like to discuss consumer behavior, buying processes, high and low involvement purchases and much more, let me know! I love talking about marketing and consumer psychologies.

So stroke each other all you want, doesn't make you correct.

edit: Two wrongs don't make a right. LOL!!

IMO the 'engine' is the photographer! 8

ktownhero wrote in post #13181742
I don't see how we agree? To me, that's a completely invalid and vapid statement. It's not about "focusing on a single criteria", it's about focusing on the backbone of what makes a great camera a great camera (or a great car a great car).

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. In that case, you seem like a 500 horsepower kind of person to me.

Tendy wrote in post #13181757
IMO the 'engine' is the photographer! 8

Sorry but the photographer is the driver, but I respect your opinion.

stsva wrote in post #13181760
Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. In that case, you seem like a 500 horsepower kind of person to me.

Not at all, actually.

PS - I edited my above post after you responded.

stsva wrote in post #13181760
Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. In that case, you seem like a 500 horsepower kind of person to me.

I'm trying to understand if something is wrong with people finding value in different things than you..... Can you qualify this statement? Are you a Prius snob? Can people get their kicks in different ways? I mean, they DO, so do you lead an angry life? I'm just curious.

ktownhero wrote in post #13181742
I don't see how we agree? To me, that's a completely invalid and vapid statement. It's not about "focusing on a single criteria", it's about focusing on the backbone of what makes a great camera a great camera (or a great car a great car). I don't understand why there's such a huge argument about this all of the time. It seems to me that people can't avoid taking it personally that there might be something better about something they don't own. Who cares? I shoot with an XSi, but I'm not going around hating on everybody that tells me a 7D or a 5DII is a better camera. I aspire to own one of those one day, but in the meantime I am in no way threatened by their opinion and continue to take fantastic pictures with the body I currently own.

These "discussions" seem to have far less to do with actual facts and more to do with psychology. It's really tiring.

Oddly enough, i agree 100% with the parts you added after the first three sentences.

Higgs Boson wrote in post #13181782
I'm trying to understand if something is wrong with people finding value in different things than you..... Can you qualify this statement? Are you a Prius snob? Can people get their kicks in different ways? I mean, they DO, so do you lead an angry life? I'm just curious.

I believe you're totally missing my point, which is exactly that different people value different things and have different needs and requirements. The analogy was designed to lead you to re-think your position on full frame sensors, where you seem to be focused on a single aspect of the question without considering the context of differing values, needs, and requirements.

Higgs Boson wrote in post #13181782
I'm trying to understand if something is wrong with people finding value in different things than you..... Can you qualify this statement? Are you a Prius snob? Can people get their kicks in different ways? I mean, they DO, so do you lead an angry life? I'm just curious.

Prius owners are ignorant idiot's. They buy a car that is more damaging to the environment in a bid to "Help the earth".

stsva wrote in post #13181820
I believe you're totally missing my point, which is exactly that different people value different things and have different needs and requirements. The analogy was designed to lead you to re-think your position on full frame sensors, where you seem to be focused on a single aspect of the question without considering the context of differing values, needs, and requirements.

No, I will not re-think my position because I am different than you, I have a different perspective than you. My whole problem with these threads is that you feel the need to change what people want by altering the information they want to know by dragging topics out of bounds and onto different fairways.

My camera purchase criteria starts with sensor type. I'm not alone in that. Yours does not. Leave it alone!! I'm not missing your point at all. I just strongly disagree with your point and your point's motivation.

We apparently agree that people like different things. Only you want people to like what you like. Booooo.

rhys216 wrote in post #13181825
Prius owners are ignorant idiot's. They buy a car that is more damaging to the environment in a bid to "Help the earth".

I cannot argue this point. But it's another topic.....