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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 28 Sep 2011 (Wednesday) 17:32
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Just to drive home the point about the cheapening of our industry....

 
603media
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Sep 29, 2011 08:02 |  #16

Hogloff wrote in post #13180498 (external link)
You assume the photography is crappy because it is free. I've seen some outstanding photos from amateurs that will leave the pros jaws dropping.

Ummm...no. I "assume" the photography is crappy because...well...it is. You may have missed the part where I stated that I reviewed the photos on their web site? When you see an over-exposed, horribly noisy and out of focus photograph of a multi-million-album-selling artist being used to promote the venue, it definitely does not make this pro's jaw drop.

Hogloff wrote in post #13180690 (external link)
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Obviously, the photos were good enough for their intended use. You must realize it is the customer that is deciding what is good enough. If the photos they got for free do the job, who are you to argue. If the client feels the free photos are garbage and is willing to pay for better ones, he'll decide.

This I actually somewhat agree with. But only to the extent that a customer actually knows what they are looking at. This is a case where the Director of Marketing clearly does not understand the value of professional imagery in their media material. He is obviously not an imaging professional and feels that his contribution to his position with the organization is improved by saving the organization money. And he's probably right.

Also, before anyone brings it up - this is nothing personal towards the venue which is why I'm not naming the venue or the corporate sponsor. I could care less what they do or who they use. The purpose of this thread is stated in the thread's title...plain and simple.


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GadgetRick
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Sep 29, 2011 08:24 |  #17

S.Horton wrote in post #13181048 (external link)
The solution is licensing requirements to be a professional.

I think it is odd that a hairdresser and a real estate agent need a license but photographers, who deal with the public in much more diverse ways do not.

Not a solution at all. My day job (recently moved to FL so rebuilding my photog business) is as a mortgage loan officer (did it for 10 years). You are now required to have a license (if not working for a depository lender). This has solved NOTHING. Weeded out some people but still a lot of crooked people left.

Licensing only amounts to a tax to those of us who are serious/good.




  
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dharrisphotog
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Sep 29, 2011 08:29 |  #18

The fact of the matter is that people no longer see the value in photographer. They literally think that's just pointing and snapping the shot. I see this in all aspects of photography, from stock photos to weddings. Everything as become cheap.


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airfrogusmc
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Sep 29, 2011 09:21 as a reply to  @ dharrisphotog's post |  #19

Heres something Adams had to say on the subject over 65 years ago so this debate is old.

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Sep 29, 2011 10:14 |  #20

I don't think less of AA as an artist after reading the above, but I certainly disagree with his opinion on this subject.


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Tarzanman
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Sep 29, 2011 10:39 |  #21

Do you guys want some cheese with your whine? "Wah, wah, GWC "A" is shooting for free and stealing up all my business!"

Do taxi drivers complain about carpoolers? Does Coca-Cola complain about the fact that water fountains are everywhere?

No, they aim their product at a market that will pay for it and focus their energies there. Gov't 'licensing' isn't going to do anything more than turn the lot of you into card-carrying crybabies (as opposed to non-card carrying crybabies)




  
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Ledrak
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Sep 29, 2011 11:01 |  #22

Tarzanman wrote in post #13181985 (external link)
Do you guys want some cheese with your whine? "Wah, wah, GWC "A" is shooting for free and stealing up all my business!"

Do taxi drivers complain about carpoolers? Does Coca-Cola complain about the fact that water fountains are everywhere?

No, they aim their product at a market that will pay for it and focus their energies there. Gov't 'licensing' isn't going to do anything more than turn the lot of you into card-carrying crybabies (as opposed to non-card carrying crybabies)

Exactly! It only takes one time for the customer who needs the quality product to realize that he didn't get a deal or bargain by taking the cheap way out. That person will then be more than willing to pay for the quality they need. I don't see the point in whining over those who refuse to pay for photography services. That's life. Get over it.




  
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603media
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Sep 29, 2011 11:11 |  #23

Wow. Tarzan and Ledrak - you are both horribly out of line.

Nobody here is "whining" about anything. This is an intelligent discussion about how the loss of value for photographers is extending even to the corporate clients who used to pay big money for it. Apparently you are both millionaire photographers who don't have to worry about competing in a tight market with people who shoot for free so I congratulate you on your success in life.

For the rest of us, we like to discuss these things. Not whine. Not cry. Discuss. If you don't like the thread, move on. But, of all the forums I belong to, I honestly don't think I've ever seen a more rude approach to take with fellow professionals.


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Sep 29, 2011 11:16 |  #24

My take on it is this: Do the NEED the promotion, or are they getting by just fine without it? You mentioned that this is a pretty major establishment with nationally advertised events. Sounds like they are doing just fine without professional, high quality photos, so why spring for them? Not that I don't agree with you, but if they sell out the house every time something happens as it is, how would they benefit from paying a pro photographer?




  
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highergr0und
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Sep 29, 2011 11:38 |  #25

603media wrote in post #13181265 (external link)
This is a case where the Director of Marketing clearly does not understand the value of professional imagery in their media material. He is obviously not an imaging professional and feels that his contribution to his position with the organization is improved by saving the organization money. And he's probably right..

Businesses exist to make money...... Not spending any is good against the budget, but making a profit trumps that all day long. I would suggest trying to set up a meeting where you will show him how he could get a return by investing in your services. He might give you a chance......


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Curtis ­ N
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Sep 29, 2011 11:40 |  #26

Tarzanman wrote in post #13181985 (external link)
Do you guys want some cheese with your whine? "Wah, wah, GWC "A" is shooting for free and stealing up all my business!"

Do taxi drivers complain about carpoolers? Does Coca-Cola complain about the fact that water fountains are everywhere?

No, they aim their product at a market that will pay for it and focus their energies there. Gov't 'licensing' isn't going to do anything more than turn the lot of you into card-carrying crybabies (as opposed to non-card carrying crybabies)

Best post I've read here in quite a while.


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Ledrak
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Sep 29, 2011 12:00 |  #27

603media wrote in post #13182125 (external link)
Wow. Tarzan and Ledrak - you are both horribly out of line.

Nobody here is "whining" about anything. This is an intelligent discussion about how the loss of value for photographers is extending even to the corporate clients who used to pay big money for it. Apparently you are both millionaire photographers who don't have to worry about competing in a tight market with people who shoot for free so I congratulate you on your success in life.

For the rest of us, we like to discuss these things. Not whine. Not cry. Discuss. If you don't like the thread, move on. But, of all the forums I belong to, I honestly don't think I've ever seen a more rude approach to take with fellow professionals.

Whatever you want to call it, so be it...
what I hear is someone complaining about a photographer giving their services out for free. Who are any of us to dictate what another photogs rates should be? If they can afford to give their services away, then more power to them. But just because someone can get a crap product for free doesn't mean they can get a quality one for the same. Thus, I'm never really concerned about such people stealing all the business away cause those clients who need and value quality won't be going anywhere.




  
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Sep 29, 2011 12:44 |  #28

I think everone is looking at this the wrong way. Yes, you can argue that this is taking away business and undervaluing quality photography, but when you are talking about a large corporation, you are talking about execs that are making million or billions of dollars per year. Aside from the economy being the way it is, the execs at this company only see $$$ signs. That's it, period, nothing more. So, if that is what they want in their pockets and they truely don't care about the quality of their own product then quality photos on their own website is something that is provided to the public at no charge.

Since this it is a company gathering and not a photo of their product placed on the front page of their website or on a label then they don't want to pay for it when they think they can take that extra money and put it toward their $300,000 BMW. They don't mean anything personal against the photography business, because that is how they treat their own employees.


  
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Hogloff
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Sep 29, 2011 12:57 |  #29
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Zerovision, been hurt in the corporate world by these mean execs making billions have you.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Sep 29, 2011 12:57 as a reply to  @ zerovision's post |  #30

Its happening and has been for decades in the commercial world only the gate keepers are art directors, designers, account managers, etc. The better ones would usually never hire a photographer without some prior knowledge, prior working relationship or a recommendation from a trusted source.

Adams was right in the fact it could have helped maintain high wages and standards in areas of photography where the general public is hiring photographers and that would have kept fees high in those areas but I say let the market find its price and standards.




  
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Just to drive home the point about the cheapening of our industry....
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