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Thread started 18 May 2009 (Monday) 21:52
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Am I losing my mind or does DPP Convert and Save lose sharpening?

 
digital ­ paradise
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Oct 02, 2011 17:23 |  #16

Well the question was does DPP discard the sharpening. Looks like it does not and PS accepts it but yes I can't comment on other programs.


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Oct 02, 2011 17:30 |  #17

Actually I converted to TIFFS so I tried this again with Jpegs and the same thing. The one sharpened at 10 was much sharper than 3. I did not think it was going to make a difference but I wanted to make sure I did it properly.


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USER876
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Oct 02, 2011 17:46 as a reply to  @ post 13195846 |  #18

The raw image on the left was viewed in DPP and was resized to fit on my computer screen. I took a screen shot of the RAW file after sharpening was applied.

The JPG was on the right was created FULL SIZE from the raw file. Again I viewed it in DPP resized to fit on my computer screen, so each file had the same amount of resizing by the same program. Again, I took a screen shot, combined them, cropped and posted.

I will shoot something in miniraw, then convert and compare 100% crops of each. I am telling you I am not wrong here, I played around with it a lot.




  
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Oct 02, 2011 17:52 |  #19

I will try viewing both the RAW and Jpeg in DPP as well.


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Oct 02, 2011 18:01 |  #20

I guess the resizing algorithms for raw files and jpeg files are not the same because each pixel in a jpeg file has 3 color compents (RGB) while only one color component (either R, G or B) in a Raw file.
Again look at them at 100% view and you should see no difference.


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Oct 02, 2011 18:02 |  #21

Screen shot while viewing both Jpeg images in DPP. Left is 3 and right is 10. Can I ask you what is your image quality slider set at? Also just want to be sure you are not resizing the original RAW file when you convert to Jpeg.

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René ­ Damkot
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Oct 02, 2011 18:51 |  #22

USER876 wrote in post #13195945 (external link)
The raw image on the left was viewed in DPP and was resized to fit on my computer screen. I took a screen shot of the RAW file after sharpening was applied.

The JPG was on the right was created FULL SIZE from the raw file. Again I viewed it in DPP resized to fit on my computer screen, so each file had the same amount of resizing by the same program. Again, I took a screen shot, combined them, cropped and posted.

Compare at 100%. They should look identical then.

I thought you were downsizing, but you aren't, so in this case, the "Size to fit" is the culprit. Might be that on a different window size, the jpg looks better...


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Oct 02, 2011 19:21 |  #23

USER876 wrote in post #13195627 (external link)
The shots I posted are not previews they are the actual photo's. They may not of been 100% but each one was resized by DPP to the same size, so they should look the same.

This is completely impossible. You write, "Image on left is a screen shot of the RAW sharpened," but it isn't. A RAW is not a color image, it is no more than a list of the voltage emitted by each pixel - not something that can be sharpened. That data is used as the basis for a complex processing workflow that in the end generates an RGB color image. That same workflow has to be utilized to produce on-the-fly a display image for your monitor which is therefore in every sense a preview of the final conversion. So the image on the left cannot be both an "actual photo" and a conversion from the RAW.


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Oct 02, 2011 19:42 as a reply to  @ tzalman's post |  #24

I see what you all are saying now, I have to do more testing, but it's weird how the jpg viewer shows it differently than the RAW. I will compare with Adobe Camera Raw, and see how much different the end product looks compared to the raw predicted preview. Wierd how this only really happens with sharpening...colors, exposure,etc, adjustments look the same.




  
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Oct 03, 2011 03:35 |  #25

It's not "weird". You're having wrong expectations: Re-sized for screen is not any kind of "predicted preview". At best it's a wild guess.

Compare sharpness at 100%. Otherwise the "resampling for screen" algorithms of different software will cause you to see differences that are not in the files.

https://photography-on-the.net …light=sharpness​+identical


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Oct 03, 2011 09:23 as a reply to  @ René Damkot's post |  #26

But shouldn't they look the same within the same software? I guess DPP does a better job resizing RAW previews than any other software I have including photoshop does resizing jpg previews. Image looks BEST in DPP in RAW when sharpening is applied. I can't match that image quality in the JPG no matter what program I use including DPP




  
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Oct 03, 2011 09:48 |  #27

And you never will. It is an illusion. I know because I have been down this road and finally gave up after months of research. Not full time but back and forth. I then came back to it and it finally made sense. Again you need to view images in DPP at 100% and compare them with images in another software at 100%. Then they will look similar. You are never going to win on this one so stop agonizing. :D

The most important thing you have not is considered is you are the only person looking at this on DPP in RAW at home on your screen. The rest of the world is not. As soon convert with whatever software you use and then save it as a Jpeg for the world to see that is what you get and you have to live with it. The key is learning how to do creative sharpening after the conversion for type of image, etc. Every image is different. If you are mass editing using something like LR you need to figure what overall setting you have apply to all the images.

As I have mentioned DPP in quick check mode on full screen is great for viewing and culling but I know the images will look different later.

By the way DPP does not do the best job resizing. I would not use it PS for that.


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Oct 03, 2011 10:00 |  #28

OK. Both these image are at 100%. The image on the right is a RAW DPP image and the one on the left is TIFF that I converted from DPP and opened in Photoshop. I see no significant difference.

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Oct 03, 2011 10:05 |  #29

USER876 wrote in post #13198244 (external link)
But shouldn't they look the same within the same software?

No. See post # 10

USER876 wrote in post #13198244 (external link)
I guess DPP does a better job resizing RAW previews than any other software I have including photoshop does resizing jpg previews.

You mean: It applies more sharpening after resizing to this particular window size ;)
Might look a bit different at a different windows size (gave it a try, and I can see small differences, not all that much, when resizing the window.)
Raw and converted jpg look similar in DPP at "fit to window" with the CR2 having a bit more halo-ing. (Not even close to the difference you showed in the first screenshot)
As far as I can see, DPP displays them identical at 100% view.

USER876 wrote in post #13198244 (external link)
Image looks BEST in DPP in RAW when sharpening is applied.

To my eye, it looks (grossly) oversharpened with jagged edges...

USER876 wrote in post #13198244 (external link)
I can't match that image quality in the JPG no matter what program I use including DPP

Export from DPP without resizing, resize in PS. Have a look here and further down: https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=13074832#po​st13074832


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Oct 03, 2011 13:03 as a reply to  @ René Damkot's post |  #30

100% view in DPP side by side with 100% view in Photoshop and I see no difference whatsoever. What are your noise reduction sliders set to when you convert?


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Am I losing my mind or does DPP Convert and Save lose sharpening?
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