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Thread started 11 Oct 2011 (Tuesday) 11:28
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40D & 85mm 1.8...Dark Gymnastics Meet..Now what? Help!

 
dmwierz
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Oct 11, 2011 19:16 |  #16

I know I need to focus more on the face but I can't frame the whole body when I have the center point on the face...any ideas?

Move your A/F point. Read your manual.

How do I switch to RAW?

Read your manual…


These look OK (not commenting on the photo's themselves). You'll get a LOT more comments if you embed them in your posts. Expecting people to click on a link then wade through your shots is a bit much. Learn to use PhotoShop and explore noise reduction (the one in PS or a third-party program like Noise Ninja)

Oh, and to the comments about "never shooting over ISO 800"….seriously? I'd almost never shoot a night game or even most indoor events if this were my rule.


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amyskis
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Oct 11, 2011 19:27 as a reply to  @ dmwierz's post |  #17

LOL, that's true, I can change my center spot to upper center, thanks for the reminder.

If I had a manual, I might read it, but that's why I wrote in my original thread that I don't know anything about RAW and reading all of that stuff goes over my head. So I'm asking you experts here to help me understand in simple terms.

I tried embedding, it took forever to load one picture, I'll try again. Thanks!




  
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amyskis
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Oct 11, 2011 19:34 as a reply to  @ post 13236209 |  #18

Nice shot! I stay mostly in portrait too, maybe I'll use the top center spot from now on, thanks!




  
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amyskis
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Oct 11, 2011 19:40 as a reply to  @ post 13236209 |  #19

Ok, I was at the gym and played around with all kinds of different combinations. I think I like this one...white balance florescent auto pre-set, 1250 ISO, 2.2, 1/500.

What do you think? Still seems kinda grainy to me.


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TweakMDS
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Oct 12, 2011 04:04 |  #20

I would really recommend you get the Lightroom 3 30 day trial and see if you can work with it when shooting these raw. You really don't need photoshop for images like this, because that's pretty much where lightroom shines. The last image you posted seems a tiny bit OOF though.


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TeleFragger
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Oct 12, 2011 06:41 |  #21

TweakMDS wrote in post #13238984 (external link)
I would really recommend you get the Lightroom 3 30 day trial and see if you can work with it when shooting these raw. You really don't need photoshop for images like this, because that's pretty much where lightroom shines. The last image you posted seems a tiny bit OOF though.

i agree on raw for dark areas.. im going to have to learn that too for night hockey as i just do jpg now..


but she still didnt tell us if she has the OEM canon cd's... to use DPP to edit raws.. maybe that would be a good choice as it is free....


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TweakMDS
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Oct 12, 2011 07:43 |  #22

TeleFragger wrote in post #13239254 (external link)
but she still didnt tell us if she has the OEM canon cd's... to use DPP to edit raws.. maybe that would be a good choice as it is free....

It certainly would - and it works about as well as the adobe raw conversion (even better in some aspects). It does lack lightroom 3's awesome noise reduction though, which - for me - eliminated the need for plugins like noise ninja.

In my opinion, shooting raw is easier than shooting jpeg, since your photographing doesn't change. It also eliminates the need for setting the white balance in camera. You can figure that out when processing the images on your computer (maybe use a reference shot though - if you have a gray card or expodisc).
If you're not comfortable with relying on raw, try shooting raw + jpeg for a while so you have the jpeg files to fall back on when you want to deliver images in a hurry.


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amyskis
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Oct 12, 2011 09:41 |  #23

I think I'll do my homework today. I actually bought Lightroom 3 and Elements 9 but haven't got around to installing and using them yet. I'll do that today and play around.

TweakMDS ~ I like that idea of raw+jpeg for now, thank you!

I don't have any Canon CDs, I bought my 40D off of Ebay used, no manual.

Thanks guys!




  
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TweakMDS
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Oct 12, 2011 10:11 |  #24

amyskis wrote in post #13239846 (external link)
I don't have any Canon CDs, I bought my 40D off of Ebay used, no manual.

Even though you already bought lightroom (good move, since it'll do so much more for you than just raw processing!), you can still install the canon software if you don't have the CD. For one you could contact Canon support with your serial number or - the easier way - there's a simple "hack" (registry file) that you can run.
Details here (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk …stall_canon_sof​tware.html (external link)) or otherwise a google search away.


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lauderdalems
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Oct 12, 2011 11:36 |  #25

I spent 3 years with a 40D in a dark college gym - volleyball and basketball. I sometimes would shoot 6400ISO and use Noisewear when needed.

Increase your ISO as needed to get the correct exposure, then worry about the noise in processing.


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Lacks_focus
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Oct 13, 2011 06:17 as a reply to  @ lauderdalems's post |  #26

Crank the ISO, shoot RAW and in Manual mode. A grainy image is better than a blurry one, you can clean grain with a NR program to some extent. Also, grain cleans up pretty nice on a normal size print. Looking at an ISO 3200 shot at 100% on your monitor will make you want to give up. Actually printing that same shot at 5X7 or even 8X10 will make you feel a little better! Shooting too dark and trying to brighten in post often makes for a noisier image than shooting higher ISO. I use the latest version of DPP. It's free and the later versions make for a fast workflow. Using RAW does not excuse you from trying to "get it right" in the camera, it just gives you some latitude for corrections due to cycling fluorescents and uneven lighting.

Keep in mind, shooting RAW requires you to use a RAW converter. A RAW file is not a pic you can look at, it’s analogous to a negative from the film days. It has to be “developed” with a converter. Changing to RAW is a simple as selecting it in your camera's menu under quality (first camera icon, right at the top of the list). You really need to get a manual. They can be downloaded in .PDF format from the Canon website.

There is much to this. Composition, anticipating the action (know the routines), getting the exposure correct and post processing tricks will all come to you in time. Gymnastics is one of the more challenging (for both equipment and photographer) sports to shoot. It’s crazy fast, often done in dark gyms with busy cluttered backgrounds. Parents normally can’t get a good shot from “outside the ropes”, and you really need to have some decent equipment. No one can tell you what settings to use (very venue dependant) and how to do this and get the shots you're after in one post. Shoot, a lot. Experiment, a lot. Post here, a lot. After all that, you still get more bombs than good shots. I know I do! I post some on my site that I don't really like, but the parents of some of the other girls I shoot like them. No one will be more critical of your work than you!

I have a level 9 this year. She does both high school and club gym and she is already shopping for colleges based on the school’s gymnastics program and major she is interested in (physical therapy, go figure)… Been where you are, in fact I started with film… Now that sucked! Moved on to a 10D, a little better, then on to 1 series cameras. The 1D3 does a nice job of it. I find the 40D usable, but a bit limiting. You may want to look into some of the newer bodies that can shoot cleaner high ISO at some point. The 85 1.8 is very nice for this work.

Welcome to film! The grainy past...

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IMAGE: http://lacks-focus.smugmug.com/photos/808076369_mGd6k-XL.jpg

A few from her level 8 season that I liked.
IMAGE: http://lacks-focus.smugmug.com/Patti-Dunnes-Castaways-2/GDS-North-East-Invitational/DLEV8067/1157457777_KWCxs-XL.jpg
IMAGE: http://lacks-focus.smugmug.com/Patti-Dunnes-Castaways-2/GDS-North-East-Invitational/DLEV8079/1157458478_27nk7-XL.jpg
IMAGE: http://lacks-focus.smugmug.com/CoventryHSGymnastics2010/CoventryRHAM-vs-Southignton/DLEV2232/1222428358_cZFej-L.jpg

1D MKIII | FujiFilm X10 | 24-70 f/2.8 | 70-200 f/2.8 | 135 f/2 | 85 f/1.8 | 580EX |
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TwoStroke
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Oct 13, 2011 09:47 |  #27

I shoot with a 30D (as well as 1DMKIII) for sports. I often shoot at 1600 and go to 3200 with the 30D (the highest it will go) and get acceptable results for newspaper and we only shoot jpg so the processing time is as short as possible. I still end up shooting as slow as 1/320 at some football games because of the lack of light even with the 1D.

From what I see in your pictures the light is decent in the gym. Be sure to set your picture quality to the L or largest possible. If you want more the L plus Raw is good and you can work the picture as much as you want. Don't be afraid to jack the ISO way up. The picture will have less noise if properly exposed with high ISO than underexposed with a low ISO.


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dmwierz
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Oct 13, 2011 17:21 |  #28

amyskis wrote in post #13237149 (external link)
]
If I had a manual, I might read it, but that's why I wrote in my original thread that I don't know anything about RAW and reading all of that stuff goes over my head. So I'm asking you experts here to help me understand in simple terms.

OK, here's a manual. Read it:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com …/Canon-EOS-40D-Manual.pdf (external link)

If I understand what you've written, rather than taking the time to find and read the manual you'd prefer someone else take their time to teach you? Well, all I can say is good luck with that.

You are asking some pretty fundamental questions. If the concept of RAW goes over your head (your words, not mine), how do you expect to understand the more difficult aspects of photography?

http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Raw_image_forma​t (external link)

In "simple terms" RAW images contain just the data received from the digital sensor. No picture styles are applied; no white balance adjustments are made; no color space conversions are done; no in camera sharpening, tone or other adjustments are applied. Just the plain data from the sensor.


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Dennis "
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amyskis
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Oct 14, 2011 10:55 |  #29

dmwierz, why do you bother to take the time to read this thread and respond if you are just going to be a jerk about it? Does it make you feel really good and powerful to make someone feel bad? Are you so awesome at photography that anyone who is trying to learn it is just wasting everyone's time here? Go away and let the kinder and more helpful people who care to share their knowledge about this very specific sport feel good about helping someone like me.

But if it makes you feel really good to go tell me to read a manual than do me and everyone who has been kind enough to send me private messages to avoid people like you a favor and just go away.




  
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amyskis
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Oct 14, 2011 11:11 |  #30

TwoStroke wrote in post #13245106 (external link)
I shoot with a 30D (as well as 1DMKIII) for sports. I often shoot at 1600 and go to 3200 with the 30D (the highest it will go) and get acceptable results for newspaper and we only shoot raw so the processing time is as short as possible. I still end up shooting as slow as 1/320 at some football games because of the lack of light even with the 1D.

From what I see in your pictures the light is decent in the gym. Be sure to set your picture quality to the L or largest possible. If you want more the L plus Raw is good and you can work the picture as much as you want. Don't be afraid to jack the ISO way up. The picture will have less noise if properly exposed with high ISO than underexposed with a low ISO.

That is very helpful, thank you so much!




  
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40D & 85mm 1.8...Dark Gymnastics Meet..Now what? Help!
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