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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 18 Sep 2011 (Sunday) 14:15
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QVC makes me sad

 
Amamba
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Sep 20, 2011 14:57 |  #46

cptrios wrote in post #13133564 (external link)
Alright this is hilarious and misleading in a lot of places ("line up the red dots, twist, and you're a professional!" is truly amazing), but it's certainly not the worst thing ever to come out of that channel. The bottom line is that a Rebel in Green Box mode is almost always going to take better photos than a P&S in green box mode, especially if you're a pixel-peeper. And the first time someone who buys into something like this sees one of their shots with narrow DoF, they'll think their whole world has changed. So the only heavily annoying thing about this ad is that at least 25% of the people buying these cameras will, indeed, be shooting weddings within a month.

I have an issue with this statement, really. While in somewhat experienced hands a Rebel is definitely capable of taking better pictures than a P&S , if using strictly the Green Box mode the P&S will generally produce better photos than any XXXD or XXD camera I've ever used. The photos coming out of P&S will be sharper, better exposed, have higher contrast and saturation, and more things will be in focus. The Green Box on Canon DSLRs tends to underexpose most of the time, and the multiple AF points are coupled with wide aperture and a much shallower DOF than most P&S.


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labellagp
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Sep 20, 2011 15:38 |  #47

Great information, & suggestions guys! Thanks a bunch!




  
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tonylong
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Sep 20, 2011 15:50 |  #48

Amamba wrote in post #13134770 (external link)
I have an issue with this statement, really. While in somewhat experienced hands a Rebel is definitely capable of taking better pictures than a P&S , if using strictly the Green Box mode the P&S will generally produce better photos than any XXXD or XXD camera I've ever used. The photos coming out of P&S will be sharper, better exposed, have higher contrast and saturation, and more things will be in focus. The Green Box on Canon DSLRs tends to underexpose most of the time, and the multiple AF points are coupled with wide aperture and a much shallower DOF than most P&S.

Hmm, I don't know about that. My various P&S/compact digicams are all dead, so I can't do any kind of test. But I figure that the DSLR will take better photos in some situations and the P&S in others, depending, I guess.


Tony
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Daniel ­ Browning
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Sep 20, 2011 18:19 |  #49

tonylong wrote in post #13135107 (external link)
But I figure that the DSLR will take better photos in some situations and the P&S in others, depending, I guess.

That's definitely correct. But if someone upgrades thinking the DSLR will always do at least as good, if not better, than the P&S, that may not turn out to be the case. There are many circumstances, specifically with depth of field, where the P&S turns out a better result. For example, the green box will often pick something like ISO 100 + f/3.5, throwing a lot of the photo out of focus and disappointing the user. The P&S would have also picked f/3.5 and ISO 100, but the whole photo would have been in focus.

But manufacturers can't really fix it, either. If they set the DSLR to always have the same DOF as a digicam, that means setting it to f/11 and high ISO. That will cause the noise level to go up to about the same as a digicam. But, at least it's not *worse*. [EDIT: I forgot to mention that if the greenbox flash is powerful enough, they wont have to worry about noise. It's only those shots from the bleachers, where the flash is doing nothing, that greenbox will have to up the ISO.]

One option would be if they had a "Digicam" mode next to the "green box" mode. Instead of giving you things like thin DOF, low noise, it would give you deep DOF and digicam-like noise (in low light).


Daniel

  
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cptrios
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Sep 20, 2011 19:22 |  #50

Amamba wrote in post #13134770 (external link)
I have an issue with this statement, really. While in somewhat experienced hands a Rebel is definitely capable of taking better pictures than a P&S , if using strictly the Green Box mode the P&S will generally produce better photos than any XXXD or XXD camera I've ever used. The photos coming out of P&S will be sharper, better exposed, have higher contrast and saturation, and more things will be in focus. The Green Box on Canon DSLRs tends to underexpose most of the time, and the multiple AF points are coupled with wide aperture and a much shallower DOF than most P&S.

See this is how long it's been since I used a P&S, let alone Green Box Mode. I didn't even stop to think about DoF or the ridiculous multi-point AF you get in Auto mode. Still, if the subject you want is in focus, then on a pixel level the SLR will still look better, even if the whole picture is sort of globally worse. But you're certainly correct.


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tstowe
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Sep 20, 2011 19:30 |  #51

labellagp wrote in post #13133337 (external link)
I was wondering if you guys would recommend any good books?

Anything written by Scott Kelby.


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Amamba
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Sep 20, 2011 19:37 |  #52

cptrios wrote in post #13136069 (external link)
See this is how long it's been since I used a P&S, let alone Green Box Mode. I didn't even stop to think about DoF or the ridiculous multi-point AF you get in Auto mode. Still, if the subject you want is in focus, then on a pixel level the SLR will still look better, even if the whole picture is sort of globally worse. But you're certainly correct.

Probably depends on P&S. I am too tired to do an actual comparison to post here right now, but I can assure you that in a fully automatic mode my very old Sony WSC-5 will take much better exposed photos than XTi and, to some extend, T2i, although the later one is better. I've tried it more than a few times.


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tonylong
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Sep 20, 2011 23:26 |  #53

Daniel Browning wrote in post #13135792 (external link)
That's definitely correct. But if someone upgrades thinking the DSLR will always do at least as good, if not better, than the P&S, that may not turn out to be the case. There are many circumstances, specifically with depth of field, where the P&S turns out a better result. For example, the green box will often pick something like ISO 100 + f/3.5, throwing a lot of the photo out of focus and disappointing the user. The P&S would have also picked f/3.5 and ISO 100, but the whole photo would have been in focus.

Yeah, I shot for a number of years with P&S-type cameras. And, because I was out to actually practice my photography, I did manage to get some great images, even in low light! In fact to this day I have framed prints from 4,5 and 6 mp digicams adorning my walls, some actual favorite of mine and those who see them (and some who walk away with one:))!

And, when I say framed, I'm talking about 12x16 prints that you can actually look at, kindof gallery-style.

But I should say that prior to me buying my first digicam (in '02) I was intently doing my "homework", reading as much as I could about photography and the rising digital camera technology. So, for my first digicam, I got one of the "advanced" compact digicams -- ones that are bigger than a pocket P&S, that had "super-zooms", and that had controls that you could actually use in modes like Manual, Av, Tv, maybe even the super-duper "P" mode:)! So, as I said, I was out to Practice Photography. But, occasionally the Auto mode seemed to fit, and I used it without complaint.

But, during all that time I kept my eye on the advance of DSLR technology, especially when the Canon 10D came out. Many people maybe weren't paying attention at the time, but I was very active in an online, well, this was before the Web became widely available, so it was caused a "Newsgroup", similar to a forum but non-web. This was an active group which, like POTN, was comprised of a wide variety of photogs, amateurs and pros. Early on, the "serious" photogs, including most of the pros, stayed away from digital, or at least cosidered P&S/digital cameras in the same way many or most people here consider P&S cameras, pretty much a "toy"/snapshot camera but useless for "serious" photography.

But, before my "eyes", all that began to change with the arrival of the 10D! A DSLR with a decent resolution that was reported to have Image Quality that actually, possibly for the first time, matched that of 35mm film!

And, it was that camera that probably did more than any other DSLR to launch the DSLR into the realm that we see today, pretty much the standard for pro and serious amateur/entustiast photographers around the world.

But, closer to the topic, I was tired of the slow performance and the lossy jpegs and the noisy high ISOs of the compact/P&S digicams, and so I bided my time so that when the 30D came out and stabilized I jumped on it. And, since I prepared my self over the years, I was committed to no Auto and Raw only, and have been ever since, for better or for worse:)!

But, as I said before, all my compact/P&S digicams died, so I can't even run a test! And actually, two of my DSLRs have a Green Box mode, so I could test things! But I ain't about to rush out and buy a P&S, no siree:)!

But manufacturers can't really fix it, either. If they set the DSLR to always have the same DOF as a digicam, that means setting it to f/11 and high ISO. That will cause the noise level to go up to about the same as a digicam. But, at least it's not *worse*. [EDIT: I forgot to mention that if the greenbox flash is powerful enough, they wont have to worry about noise. It's only those shots from the bleachers, where the flash is doing nothing, that greenbox will have to up the ISO.]

One option would be if they had a "Digicam" mode next to the "green box" mode. Instead of giving you things like thin DOF, low noise, it would give you deep DOF and digicam-like noise (in low light).

Hmm...well, along the lines of the flash, they really should make the Canon built-in flash actually usable for a decent portrat fill-flash instead of a redeye monster, but oh well, I guess it's a bit much to ask for what could be a bit of a re-design:(!


Tony
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Sep 25, 2011 19:56 |  #54

tstowe wrote in post #13136116 (external link)
Anything written by Scott Kelby.

Or Joe McNally.




  
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Rainyday
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Oct 17, 2011 08:19 as a reply to  @ Rainyday's post |  #55

They're BAAAACK! Today's Special Value (taDA!) is an Olympus bridge camera. 30fps, various art filters, 720p video. Couldn't get the actual model but I'm guessing it's been discontinued.

They will be showing the camera throughout the day until midnight (or it sells out) and if you get a chance to catch it, it's hilarious.

People, hurry! Buy this camera and it will change your life forever!! Yes! Hurry!:rolleyes:




  
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neilwood32
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Oct 17, 2011 08:45 as a reply to  @ Rainyday's post |  #56

tonylong wrote in post #13134382 (external link)
Heh! There are many good books out there!

"Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson is I'm sure the most-recommended book on photography here and is widely available at Amazon and such. But, be advised -- get the latest revision. He started in the film realm and in recent revisions has updated some thing to adapt to the digital revolution

Also, you may find it helpful to get the David Busch book covering your specific camera, Here's a quick Amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com …Photography/dp/​143546026X (external link)

And then, there is a "sticky" thread here with a lot of book info:

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=53846

So, have fun!

+1 on those suggestions.

Also have a look at Bens Newbie Guide - lots of good info in there and its free!


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snyderman
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Oct 17, 2011 08:56 |  #57

They'll listen to the inaccuracies spouted on QVC about taking 'pro quality' shots and buy a Rebel kit. What will happen is they'll put the thing in green box mode, take images at 1/40 on the shutter, find this place and post 'em up asking, 'why are my shots blurry?!'

dave


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MilesW
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Oct 23, 2011 07:29 |  #58

Most people recognize sales hype when the see it. That is what QVC is about


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Rainyday
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Oct 23, 2011 18:53 |  #59

MilesW wrote in post #13292668 (external link)
Most people recognize sales hype when the see it. That is what QVC is about

No, sadly, many folks don't. One of their hosts once said "You know, QVC reaches 100 million households, blah blah blah. Technically, that may be true. But 100 million households aren't watching, and even fewer are buying so the attempt to make people grab their credit cards is bogus. And yet, somebody out their in TV Land will think "gee, I need to hurry up and buy that product right now!"

Anyway, I always enjoy watching them promote cameras, their sales pitch is silly and very funny, if you actually know about photography.




  
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Veemac
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Oct 24, 2011 01:54 |  #60

crn3371 wrote in post #13134190 (external link)
Being an enthusiasts forum I think we sometimes loose sight of what's happening in the real world. I think the majority of people that purchase the entry level dslr kits have no desire to learn about things such as exposure, aperture, or shutter speed. They are perfectly content to use the green box or other auto modes. They are not buying the camera because they want to learn, they are buying because they think it's a "professional" camera and it will make them take better pictures.

Very true. I have several friends with Rebel kits who have absolutely zero interest in delving into all the technical details of photography. They set their cameras in green box mode with the kit lens and snap away, and are perfectly happy with their photos. None of them are interested in furthering their knowledge of photography, per se - they just want to preserve memories of their friends and families. As long as they're happy, far be it from me to rain on their parade.


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