Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Glamour & Nude Talk 
Thread started 30 Oct 2011 (Sunday) 01:07
Search threadPrev/next

No Escorts Allowed ??

 
mdvaden
Goldmember
Avatar
3,458 posts
Gallery: 91 photos
Likes: 1696
Joined Mar 2009
Location: Medford, Oregon
     
Oct 30, 2011 01:07 |  #1

This relates to something on Model Mayem. But can be a matter of policy anywhere. A few weeks ago, I read in one photographers profile that Escorts are not allowed.

Most of his port is G&N. And his work is pretty darn good. There's reams of models listed whom he has worked with too. I suspect he has a solid reason for not allowing escorts.

So my question to others, are what good reasons are there to basically banning escorts. At least one possible reason comes to mind, but I'd like to hear what others think. Especially those with experience.

:cool:


vadenphotography.com (external link) . . . and . . . Coast Redwoods Main Page (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sspellman
Goldmember
Avatar
1,731 posts
Likes: 30
Joined Dec 2006
Location: Detroit, Michigan
     
Oct 30, 2011 02:49 |  #2

Many photographers have had issues with model escorts due to the model being distracted, model not giving good expressions, model trying to please or accommodate escort, the escort interfering or trying to direct the shoot, or the escort stealing or being threatening or even violent. Thus is most likely to happen when the escort is a boyfriend or lover.

I let my Clients make their own decision for their shoot, but remind them that too many cooks can easily bog down the shoot. For my own test shoots, I always meet with the models to plan all critical details of the shoot first, establish good communication and trust, and create a good environment for wonderful photos.

-Scott


ScottSpellmanMedia.com [photography]

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mdvaden
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
3,458 posts
Gallery: 91 photos
Likes: 1696
Joined Mar 2009
Location: Medford, Oregon
     
Oct 30, 2011 10:02 |  #3

sspellman wrote in post #13327350 (external link)
Thus is most likely to happen when the escort is a boyfriend or lover.

That zeroes-in on an aspect I was suspecting.

It would seem to be human-nature for many women, even men, to stay somewhat inhibited with expression around someone with who they were bonded to. And one would expect photographers to hope for models potential to become unleashed, not contained.

:cool:


vadenphotography.com (external link) . . . and . . . Coast Redwoods Main Page (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sandpiper
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,171 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 50
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Merseyside, England
     
Oct 30, 2011 10:28 |  #4

sspellman wrote in post #13327350 (external link)
Many photographers have had issues with model escorts due to the model being distracted, model not giving good expressions, model trying to please or accommodate escort, the escort interfering or trying to direct the shoot, or the escort stealing or being threatening or even violent. Thus is most likely to happen when the escort is a boyfriend or lover.

That pretty much sums it up.

Professional models (i.e. agency) don't bring along chaperones, this is something that has come along with internet modelling sites. Some models (essentially amateurs) feel that they are not safe without a bodyguard to protect them. I am perfectly happy with young models (i.e. minors) having a parent / guardian with them, that should be the accepted norm. However, I am less happy about older models bringing friends / boyfriends etc with them. It causes problems with the models attention being split two ways, you are trying to get a look from them, you are almost there and ... the chaperone makes a comment and the model turns to them and the pose and expression are lost. Some models say, "that's ok, he can sit in another room". Well, no he can't. I don't want some stranger nosing about my house or studio, potentially picking up some little souvenirs that I won't notice are missing until days or weeks later when I need them.

Similarly, a model may feel safer with a big hulking quarterback boyfriend along, but a photographer, maybe in his 50s or 60s and of smaller stature, carrying several grands worth of gear may suddenly feel very unsafe, and there have been cases of muggings in such circumstances, where a model is only arranging shoots so the boyfriend can bash the guy and nick all his gear.

Two people coming doubles the chance of a 'no show' too. I have seen many cases where a model cancelled at the last moment, because the chaperone had something crop up and couldn't make it.

As with anything, there can be good and bad chaperones. Some can be great and muck in holding reflectors etc., and not distracting the model. Others can be a royal PITA and cause enough disruption that neither the model or photographer gets into the right frame of mind that produces great results.

If you know that it could go either way, why take the chance. Some models won't work without one, assuming that a photographer who won't allow them "must be dodgy and have something to hide", some photographers refuse them for perfectly valid reasons as Scott lists above. A photographers fear of being mugged, assaulted, stolen from etc. is just as valid as a models fear of being abused by a photographer.

If a model insists on a chaperone and the photographer won't allow it, the answer is simple. The photographer simply finds another model, there are plenty out there and the majority don't expect to bring a chaperone.

There are no right or wrong answers here, both are entitled to ask for conditions they feel safe working under, if that clashes then the model simply misses out on the job, but that is their decision.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Rittrato
Goldmember
Avatar
1,224 posts
Likes: 27
Joined May 2010
     
Oct 30, 2011 10:52 as a reply to  @ sandpiper's post |  #5

Very good point on the minor part. Bringing a guardian, parent or family doesn;t bother me. but for mature models (21 y/o and above) I simply don't deal with them if they want to bring someone at the shoot. I just find it so unprofessional to be honest, especially when they see my MM account where I have tons of feedbacks from previous models I've worrked with. I just find it insulting when these new models wants to bring an escort.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mdvaden
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
3,458 posts
Gallery: 91 photos
Likes: 1696
Joined Mar 2009
Location: Medford, Oregon
     
Oct 30, 2011 11:33 |  #6

sandpiper wrote in post #13328208 (external link)
Two people coming doubles the chance of a 'no show' too. I have seen many cases where a model cancelled at the last moment, because the chaperone had something crop up and couldn't make it.

One model I allowed to bring an escort, first texted that the friend's college exam was running long. In the end, it amounted to meeting an agreed 30 minutes later. It was an outdoors shoot, with limited day-length. So starting 3:30pm rather than 3pm was a concern, plus considering a full hour commute each way. That was the one where the "doubles" chances got me thinking more about this. Good thing her friend was willing to be in a few shots too.


vadenphotography.com (external link) . . . and . . . Coast Redwoods Main Page (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tonic
Mostly Lurking
Avatar
11 posts
Joined Nov 2011
Location: Canaduh
     
Nov 05, 2011 07:17 |  #7

At a few shoots that I have organized, models would bring a few people with them. I have told the models in advance that you can bring whoever you want but if they distract the photographer and the work then they will be asked to leave. Escorts has its pros and cons, I believe it makes the model more comfortable to shoot with a photographer that is new for them. I never had any problems with escorts as long as they respect the work being done and not disturbing the shoot.


Canon EOS 60D | Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Lens | Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS 8-)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tonic
Mostly Lurking
Avatar
11 posts
Joined Nov 2011
Location: Canaduh
     
Nov 05, 2011 07:25 |  #8

sspellman wrote in post #13327350 (external link)
Many photographers have had issues with model escorts due to the model being distracted, model not giving good expressions, model trying to please or accommodate escort, the escort interfering or trying to direct the shoot, or the escort stealing or being threatening or even violent. Thus is most likely to happen when the escort is a boyfriend or lover.

I let my Clients make their own decision for their shoot, but remind them that too many cooks can easily bog down the shoot. For my own test shoots, I always meet with the models to plan all critical details of the shoot first, establish good communication and trust, and create a good environment for wonderful photos.

-Scott

I had a model one time bring her boyfriend. He was built and tattoos everywhere on him, this guy seemed like trouble when I first met him and I thought 'great he will distract the shoot'. It turned out he didn't even say a single word, he was mostly on his phone minding his own business. From other photographers that I have heard from, boyfriends have caused interferences with the shoots and one photographer that I know gave up and ended the shoot because the boyfriend was all over him.


Canon EOS 60D | Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Lens | Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS 8-)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
John
Goldmember
Avatar
1,405 posts
Likes: 35
Joined Oct 2006
     
Nov 05, 2011 14:31 |  #9

sspellman wrote in post #13327350 (external link)
Many photographers have had issues with model escorts due to the model being distracted, model not giving good expressions, model trying to please or accommodate escort, the escort interfering or trying to direct the shoot, or the escort stealing or being threatening or even violent. Thus is most likely to happen when the escort is a boyfriend or lover.

Scott summed it up very well here.

I see on some model's profiles that they always bring an escort and they always explain that the person won't get in the way and is very quiet, etc. However, in my experience, the escort is more likely to distract the model than the photographer.


john | gear | web hosting deal for POTN members!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
z-monster
Member
Avatar
95 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 6
Joined Sep 2008
Location: Kansas
     
Nov 05, 2011 14:58 |  #10

sspellman wrote in post #13327350 (external link)
or being threatening or even violent

I had a Texas model warn me that her escort is a Professional Security Officer and will carry a 9mm.

When we all showed up I kindly shook the escorts hand and reminded him that I was a current Combat Photographer for the US Military with 6 real world deployments under my belt all of them with real combat experience. I kindly showed them my SIG P226 40mm that I open carried at the shoot. Plus my escort was a team mate who wanted the model to pose with his heavily modified but very legal AR15. My team mate was former Infantry and was a school trained Sniper who later changed his job after an injury in Iraq and for his love for photography.

Needless to say the shoot was cancelled by the model on the spot and she was never heard from ever again. In fact her MM and OMP account were gone within a week. :p


My feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
neil_r
Cream of the Proverbial Crop
Landscape and Cityscape Photographer 2006
Avatar
18,065 posts
Likes: 10
Joined Jan 2003
Location: The middle of the UK
     
Nov 05, 2011 15:03 |  #11

Don't get the point here?

z-monster wrote in post #13358030 (external link)
I had a Texas model warn me that her escort is a Professional Security Officer and will carry a 9mm.

When we all showed up I kindly shook the escorts hand and reminded him that I was a current Combat Photographer for the US Military with 6 real world deployments under my belt all of them with real combat experience. I kindly showed them my SIG P226 40mm that I open carried at the shoot. Plus my escort was a team mate who wanted the model to pose with his heavily modified but very legal AR15. My team mate was former Infantry and was a school trained Sniper who later changed his job after an injury in Iraq and for his love for photography.

Needless to say the shoot was cancelled by the model on the spot and she was never heard from ever again. In fact her MM and OMP account were gone within a week. :p


Neil - © NHR Photography
Commercial Site (external link) - Video Site (external link) - Blog - (external link)Gear List There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs. ~ Ansel Adams

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sandpiper
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,171 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 50
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Merseyside, England
     
Nov 05, 2011 15:47 |  #12

neil_r wrote in post #13358046 (external link)
Don't get the point here?

Standard US military response to somebody else saying "I have a weapon", they show up mob handed and say "yeah? We have more and bigger" to scare the crap out of them.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sigma ­ pi
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
11,204 posts
Likes: 5
Joined Apr 2010
Location: Los Angeles
     
Nov 05, 2011 16:00 |  #13

sandpiper wrote in post #13358178 (external link)
Standard US military response to somebody else saying "I have a weapon", they show up mob handed and say "yeah? We have more and bigger" to scare the crap out of them.

You were not complaining during WWII ;)


Don't try to confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up.
http://www.flickr.com …6850267535/in/p​hotostream (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sigma ­ pi
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
11,204 posts
Likes: 5
Joined Apr 2010
Location: Los Angeles
     
Nov 05, 2011 16:00 |  #14

neil_r wrote in post #13358046 (external link)
Don't get the point here?

The point is its a dumb arms race.


Don't try to confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up.
http://www.flickr.com …6850267535/in/p​hotostream (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
eye2i
Goldmember
1,791 posts
Gallery: 4 photos
Likes: 60
Joined Jul 2009
     
Nov 05, 2011 16:01 |  #15

z-monster wrote in post #13358030 (external link)
I had a Texas model warn me that her escort is a Professional Security Officer and will carry a 9mm.

When we all showed up I kindly shook the escorts hand and reminded him that I was a current Combat Photographer for the US Military with 6 real world deployments under my belt all of them with real combat experience. I kindly showed them my SIG P226 40mm that I open carried at the shoot. Plus my escort was a team mate who wanted the model to pose with his heavily modified but very legal AR15. My team mate was former Infantry and was a school trained Sniper who later changed his job after an injury in Iraq and for his love for photography.

Needless to say the shoot was cancelled by the model on the spot and she was never heard from ever again. In fact her MM and OMP account were gone within a week. :p

Only in Texas :lol:




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY

8,474 views & 0 likes for this thread
No Escorts Allowed ??
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Glamour & Nude Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is countrygirl67
832 guests, 255 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.