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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 10 Nov 2011 (Thursday) 00:25
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HS Football, would you use flash?

 
dennykyser
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Nov 10, 2011 00:25 |  #1

I am searching over threads now, and I see pros and cons.

My question is, if your images looked like this would you switch over to flash.

I think they are on the fence, flash would give a nice pop and better color, but you would also give up speed.

I am shooting with a 1DIV and 400 2.8L IS ISO 5000, 1/640th using NR in LR

I know if it were any darker would be a no brainer, and even now I have to know where I can get away with shooting and where I can not.

Here are a couple random examples I pulled from a late night game.


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Nov 10, 2011 00:41 |  #2

5,000 ISO on the IV doesn't even need NR at all, I'd stick to what you're doing. I have no problem going up to 8,000 ISO and never notice a problem there, the noise is so minimal when it comes to prints it's not worth the time. Now our field you need H1 ISO to get to 1/1000 - then I'd flash.


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Nov 10, 2011 10:45 |  #3

Your shots look great, and I think that if you can get great shots without flash, avoid the extra headache. I use flash on the primary field where I shoot, but I have to go to ISO 8,000 & above on the MKIV if I don't. I think that your pictures are great just like they are and there are a lot of new challenges using flash. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


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Huskers69
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Nov 10, 2011 12:27 |  #4

your pictures look good, but they would "pop" if you used flash. I have a Mark IV and 400 lens, but still use flash. Of course I have to for MaxPreps. LOL.


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dennykyser
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Nov 10, 2011 12:33 |  #5

Huskers69 wrote in post #13381488 (external link)
your pictures look good, but they would "pop" if you used flash. I have a Mark IV and 400 lens, but still use flash. Of course I have to for MaxPreps. LOL.

I just started shooting for MaxPreps so will have to add flash when I do shoot for them, too late this year to do much playing around but I am hoping to try the PW min and flex combo allowing me to use a shutter speed around 500. This year will just use OCF cord.


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Dan-o
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Nov 10, 2011 12:57 |  #6

These are good and wouldn't bother if they all looked like this. It is easy to pick out two images from a set that are good but how many from a game have really shadowed faces? My biggest problem with ambient is the light cycling. The MIV is awesome for noise but it is still a pain in the ass processing 400 images where every image has a slightly different color shift and even some fields will shift almost a complete stop of light in a 5 shot burst.

I hate the hassle factor shooting with flash but still prefer the look and ease of processing that goes with it. I mix it up and usually shoot both every game.

Also it is BS about MP requiring flash. They require properly exposed, in focus images without excessive noise.


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dennykyser
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Nov 10, 2011 13:05 |  #7

Dan-o wrote in post #13381635 (external link)
These are good and wouldn't bother if they all looked like this. It is easy to pick out two images from a set that are good but how many from a game have really shadowed faces? My biggest problem with ambient is the light cycling. The MIV is awesome for noise but it is still a pain in the ass processing 400 images where every image has a slightly different color shift and even some fields will shift almost a complete stop of light in a 5 shot burst.

I hate the hassle factor shooting with flash but still prefer the look and ease of processing that goes with it. I mix it up and usually shoot both every game.

Also it is BS about MP requiring flash. They require properly exposed, in focus images without excessive noise.

You have great points, and I do have color shifts, I swear you would think some are taken in a different location at times. I do end up with a lot of keepers, but just like basketball, they are "acceptable" Love the pop flash gives so going to start trying it.

I am new to flash for sports, but in portrait situations I like to use just enough flash to even out the colors and give a nice skin tone. I am hoping I can do this with sports by using pw slaves that allow for much faster sync times.

I know with my acuteB2, I can easily sync at 1/500 with the 1DIV which should be plenty for basketball, and if I use a higher iso should get really fast recycle times.


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Dan-o
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Nov 10, 2011 13:21 |  #8

Yes there are plus and minuses with both. I shoot at a JC stadium for the home games of the HS team I work for and it doesn't get much better. It is 3200/640 in the middle and 3200/500 on the ends but there is still a color shift. It is a real pain to get them print ready to a site like MP when they all need a bit of tweaking. With flash the colors are very consistent and you can batch them.

I do catch so much more of the action being able to shoot bursts with ambient though.


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dennykyser
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Nov 10, 2011 13:34 |  #9

Dan-o wrote in post #13381726 (external link)
Yes there are plus and minuses with both. I shoot at a JC stadium for the home games of the HS team I work for and it doesn't get much better. It is 3200/640 in the middle and 3200/500 on the ends but there is still a color shift. It is a real pain to get them print ready to a site like MP when they all need a bit of tweaking. With flash the colors are very consistent and you can batch them.

I do catch so much more of the action being able to shoot bursts with ambient though.

If you use a battery pack, could you get short bursts of say 3-4 fps?


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Nov 10, 2011 14:03 |  #10

No. I generally shoot ETTL -1/3 to 0 and still recycle is 1/4-1/2 second.


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Huskers69
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Nov 10, 2011 14:56 |  #11

Dan-o wrote in post #13381635 (external link)
Also it is BS about MP requiring flash. They require properly exposed, in focus images without excessive noise.

Not totally BS: From MaxPreps email.........

The general rule has always been IF you can produce high-quality images, with great available light and LITTLE to no noise then we will accept them BUT many photographers can not produce this quality even with the top of the line Canon and Nikon bodies (Mark 4, D3S etc).

The exception has always been that if you are shooting a high school game in a large college or pro stadium that offers great available light then no flash is needed but the images still must pass our quality standards.

We have VERY few photographers that do not use flash and get their galleries posted on regular basis so it’s best to just use flash as many high school stadiums are darkly lit – especially the end zones.


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dennykyser
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Nov 10, 2011 15:10 as a reply to  @ Huskers69's post |  #12

Thanks everyone and it will be a learning curve but have to say will be nice knowing I can go to any field and shoot the game and not have to wonder if the lighting is good enough.

This subject will come back up I am betting when the 1DX is out and LR and other software improves.

I saw some sample images from the 1DX at super high ISO and was blown away, could be a game changer.


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Nov 10, 2011 18:48 |  #13

dennykyser wrote in post #13379488 (external link)
I am searching over threads now, and I see pros and cons.

My question is, if your images looked like this would you switch over to flash.

Heck no! Great shots!


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Nov 13, 2011 10:43 as a reply to  @ toadhunter911's post |  #14

It must be where I live but all the stadiums that I have been to I can shoot at 1000th with 2200-6400 ISO and get 0 noise after some reduction in LR


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Nov 13, 2011 12:18 as a reply to  @ BLD_007's post |  #15

On almost every high school field where I shoot, there are two light poles on each side of the field (four total). Typically, they are located at about the 15 (+ or -) yard line. Because of that, the light in the middle of the field is fairly even and comes from several directions--minimizing shadows.

However, there are no lights coming from the end zones. Therefore, attempts to shoot runs into the end zone from beyond the end line (an otherwise prime shooting location) are riddled with shadows that high ISO capability cannot correct.

Examples:

Middle of the field--tolerable shadows (maybe) ISO 6400

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End zone--almost identical camera settings, the whites of the pants on player #8 are burned out slightly, but the shadows destroy the shot. It needed flash. There is just no light from the end zone side of this field.
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HS Football, would you use flash?
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