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Thread started 03 Nov 2011 (Thursday) 10:24
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School Paper and Copyright...Again

 
malibubts
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Nov 15, 2011 21:05 |  #91

Got an email from the attorney today. He called Monday and got the machine, he left a message asking my adviser to call him back. As of the email today, 2:00, he hasn't heard back. My attorney said he was headed into the meeting for the rest of the day and he would try again tomorrow.

While no real progress here this is making me think that they've realized they messed up. Granted I'm sure the adviser is busy, but no call back after a day and a half is a little interesting.


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pwm2
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Nov 16, 2011 03:58 |  #92

malibubts wrote in post #13405492 (external link)
Got an email from the attorney today. He called Monday and got the machine, he left a message asking my adviser to call him back. As of the email today, 2:00, he hasn't heard back. My attorney said he was headed into the meeting for the rest of the day and he would try again tomorrow.

While no real progress here this is making me think that they've realized they messed up. Granted I'm sure the adviser is busy, but no call back after a day and a half is a little interesting.

Don't worry. I am pretty sure the advisor isn't allowed to answer calls from another parts attorney on his own. So if he has picked up the message, he first have to arrange one or more meetings internally before he either get the company of the university lawyer or have to to drop out of the loop completely.


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P51Mstg
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Nov 16, 2011 05:40 |  #93

As a retred atty..........

"Don't worry. I am pretty sure the advisor isn't allowed to answer calls from another parts attorney on his own. So if he has picked up the message, he first have to arrange one or more meetings internally before he either get the company of the university lawyer or have to to drop out of the loop completely."

I'd say that is a pretty good summary of the situation. Justice takes time.

I'd also say in the mean time (I haven't reread all the stuff above in a few days)..... Stop giving them new photos. If you do .... It tends to show that you AGREE with the school's policy....

Nice to have a lawyer that emails you back.....

Mark H


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Nov 19, 2011 22:16 as a reply to  @ P51Mstg's post |  #94

any updates?

Hope all is going well!


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malibubts
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Nov 29, 2011 20:13 |  #95

I've got two updates here from my lawyer. They were both along the same lines so I just waited to post.

I got a call from him early last week about the situation. He ended up talking with the legal adviser for The Lantern and not the adviser. The legal adviser said they would draw up a license agreement for me to use the photos from them in a certain manner but they still retained copyright. He also told my lawyer that he knew they weren't working with copyright law correctly and they are working on taking care of the problem. I asked my attorney to get back with them and see if they would accept a license given to them where I retain the copyright. I just got this email from him today.

Eric,

I talked to the OSU attorney again to discuss the potential for an arrangement that would allow you to retain ownership of photographs submitted to the Lantern. Basically, their response was that setting up individual agreements is too much administrative hassle for them, so they would rather not have the photos than make that sort of agreement. I understand that this is not the norm at other papers, but the Lantern is controlled by OSU's legal department, and that is how they are choosing to handle it. If you really want to retain ownership of your pictures, I would advise that you get press passes from another organization and/or submit your photographs to them. Otherwise, you still have the non-commercial license, which is pretty broad, provided that you provide the notice that they requested.

He also mentioned that, if someone were to capture an historic moment, there would be room for negotiation. So, if you ever catch soldiers raising the flag at Iwo Jima, or something similar, be sure to let me know and we can shop the photograph around and license it for use, as opposed to yielding copyright ownership. You would have a lot more leverage with something like that.

Hope that helps Eric. Let me know if you have any other questions.

So I guess I'm going to give this a couple days thought. Part of me feels that it's really not that big of a deal in the long run and I'm still able to display the images on my site but with a little alteration of the description. But the other part of me still feels like I'm being taken advantage of here. And If I do stop working with them I can't decide how far to take it. Do I just leave it alone, send them a DMCA notice to take down my material that they still have on their site, prevent further use, or do I full on sue them...

Also does anyone know if an educational institution can make this a requirement to participate? The attorney I spoke with at the SPLC last spring brought up something about that the Lantern couldn't say you have to sign away your copyright to work for us because it is an educational program. I'm going to ask my attorney about this, but I still figured I'd get your input.

It just seems like any way I choose to go about this it's going to be a loss. What would you guys do in this situation?


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Nov 29, 2011 20:27 |  #96

We told you from the beginning that you'd have to give up working for them if you wanted to retain your rights.


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P51Mstg
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Nov 29, 2011 20:30 |  #97

Actually there is a work around. WHen you shoot, put it on burst and get a burst. Give them some "B" images and keep the "A" images for yourself....

I always hang onto the good ones (which get sold) and the ones that get posted on the web or sent in mass emails to my friends are not nearly as good as those are....

Also lower the size and DPI for the ones you give to them...

Not really ethical to do this, but then what they are doing to you, well you should be married in at least 48 states for that to happen.......

Mark H


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TheBurningCrown
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Nov 29, 2011 23:27 |  #98

malibubts wrote in post #13471251 (external link)
Also does anyone know if an educational institution can make this a requirement to participate?

IANAL, but here are my insights: it's a public university, yes, but it's not a course, you're not being denied a degree, and if you want to shoot for them you need to abide by their rules. Yeah, it sucks, but the university does have some control over how the newspaper operates (budget, advisors, etc.) even if they don't have editorial control.

Other public university programs have "requirements to participate" as well. See football programs for a prime example...

P51Mstg wrote in post #13471343 (external link)
Actually there is a work around. WHen you shoot, put it on burst and get a burst. Give them some "B" images and keep the "A" images for yourself....

Not really ethical to do this

This is also an option, but, agreed, not terribly ethical...


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Nov 29, 2011 23:39 as a reply to  @ TheBurningCrown's post |  #99

Can you contact a local paper and get press passes from them? I bet a local paper will pay more than what the school is paying you.


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Nov 29, 2011 23:40 |  #100

Eric-

If you agree to their amended policy which still gives them copyright ownership of the images-then you have not really achieved anything. Their policy needs to change and could easily change for everyone but they choose to ignore the law, established industry practices, and threatened you with legal action. Is this really an organization you want to work for?

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Nov 29, 2011 23:43 |  #101

sspellman wrote in post #13472278 (external link)
Eric-

If you agree to their amended policy which still gives them copyright ownership of the images-then you have not really achieved anything. Their policy needs to change and could easily change for everyone but they choose to ignore the law, established industry practices, and threatened you with legal action. Is this really an organization you want to work for?

-Scott

agreed


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Nov 30, 2011 00:07 |  #102

BLD_007 wrote in post #13472289 (external link)
agreed

Seconded.


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Nov 30, 2011 02:13 |  #103

They acknowledge that they do not comply with copyright law.

They should therefore not be talking about making an individual agreement with you, they should be changing their working policy so that it complies with the law.


  
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Nov 30, 2011 02:14 |  #104

Now, if you were to talk to all of the other togs that submit to the Lantern and point them at this thread it is possible that the supply of images to the Lantern may just dry up.....


  
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malibubts
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Nov 30, 2011 08:44 |  #105

P51: Not something I really want to mess with. They will be watching my site I'm sure if I do decide to continue working with them so it wouldn't last long anyway.

Burning: That's what I figured but the attorney I spoke with from the SPLC last spring mentioned something about it. I went ahead and asked the attorney I've been working with so we'll see what he says.

BLD: I can try papers but I don't know how far I'd get. Most of the papers are pretty big and have staff photographers that cover all of the sports here, which is mostly what I shoot with The Lantern. I might try and find some smaller papers or maybe a blog that needs some help in the photo department.

Spellman: That's exactly my line of thought right now. I've been nothing but great to them and they are treating me like garbage. I mean I only want to retain the rights, which isn't out of the question, and they freak on me.

Nightstalker: 'It's too much work' for them. I indeed agree with you, they should be trying to get complicit in the law and not take advantage of students. And I'm actually considering that, and not as like an a**hole move or anything. I'm sure none of the photogs there have any idea that they are 'surrendering copyright' to The Lantern by taking photos for them.


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