how do you know a wedding requires 2nd and 3rd shooter?

I guess if I had a husband/wife team I'd be fine with a 2nd shooter. But honestly, I've really never needed one.

umphotography wrote in post #13449237
I dont care what the guys say, and ive been there as well, the brides are more relaxed and comfortable with a woman in that dressing room v/s staging shots with a male photographer present. My wife gets some amazing shots because she is a woman and the girls just relax and be themselves. Girls are running all over the place in their bras,panties and slips, carrying on an having a good time and doing the stuff that girls do,isnt gonna happen with a male photographer in there. Trust me, ive seen some of the stuff that goes on in the photos. a lot of it is never gonna go in an album but the girls love it when the get the proofs back. Mom seeing her daughter put that bridal dress over her head, that first look they get when they see her in the dress, stuff like that while its happening v/s staged.........not gonna happen with a guy in the changng area

VERY TRUE !!!!

Of all the weddings I've shot, maybe 5% of the brides felt uncomfortable with me in the room while they and their bridesmaids were getting ready. This includes all stages of undress. Of course, I never took any pictures of anyone who was 'Rated R' shall we say, but I can't imagine that a female photog in the room would have taken any either. Those brides who felt uncomfortable with me in the room during the changing-of-clothes-process would have felt uncomfortable with anyone in the room.
I'm all for having as many shooters as the bride wants at her wedding. As for how many she needs, that's a different story. If I could bring a handful of photographers to every wedding I shot and not have to charge the bride 50% for each one, I'd do it! However, the cost of hiring extra shooters simply isn't worth it in my market. I charge more for destination weddings, naturally, and that would be one place I'd love to have extra eyes out there, but so far no bride (or her family) has been willing to pay the additional expenses for international 2nd shooters.

Shadow on the Door wrote in post #13443461
if it's a wedding, you need a 2nd shooter..if it's a big wedding, you need more.

Rubbish.

It also has to be pointed out that a lot of the time second shooters are partners of the main shooter. Meaning they are more of an assistant because they're not as good as the pro.

Couples a lot of the time think that by having two people present taking pictures it's automatically a good thing when it can just be they are getting one pro and a bag carrier. A lot of togs sell that aspect to be more important than it is to nail a commission. For some togs having as assistant is totally justified in the way they work but that's the exception not the rule.

Gel wrote in post #13450653
Rubbish.

It also has to be pointed out that a lot of the time second shooters are partners of the main shooter. Meaning they are more of an assistant because they're not as good as the pro.

Couples a lot of the time think that by having two people present taking pictures it's automatically a good thing when it can just be they are getting one pro and a bag carrier. A lot of togs sell that aspect to be more important than it is to nail a commission. For some togs having as assistant is totally justified in the way they work but that's the exception not the rule.

GEL

What happens if you slip and break an ankle. How about food poisoning or a heart attack ? PPA says it happens. Obviously these are extremes. But It does happen and in this sue happy society i think its better to act on the side of caution. We have 2 assistants that we use on big weddings. we offer the clients the option of having one at cost which is $200.00. I pay our assistants a minimum of $250.00 for an 8 hr wedding. costs me 50.00 and duplicate images are easy to throw in the trash can in post.

umphotography wrote in post #13451953
What happens if you slip and break an ankle. How about food poisoning or a heart attack ? PPA says it happens. Obviously these are extremes. But It does happen and in this sue happy society i think its better to act on the side of caution.

I don't know about over in the US but that should be covered by your contracts.

Mind you the US does seem to be the place where anyone can sue anyone else for anything.

What about your backup shooters for your backup shooters? What if you are all travelling in the same car and have an accident.

I recommend a second shooter if the couple wants getting ready shots of the groom, more journalistic style shots or if we are really pressed for time.

I bring an assistant if we will be moving locations more then a few times and we are pressed for time.

I have rarely looked at an event after the fact and thought I really needed a second shooter but I have often thought I could have used an assistant.

I love shooting as 2nd and always have 2nd when I shoot as main.

I have heard of couples try to save money by just using 1 shooter. They don't want to pay extra cost.

umphotography wrote in post #13451953
GEL

What happens if you slip and break an ankle. How about food poisoning or a heart attack ? PPA says it happens. Obviously these are extremes. But It does happen and in this sue happy society i think its better to act on the side of caution. We have 2 assistants that we use on big weddings. we offer the clients the option of having one at cost which is $200.00. I pay our assistants a minimum of $250.00 for an 8 hr wedding. costs me 50.00 and duplicate images are easy to throw in the trash can in post.

You're right, these are extremes. Worst I had this year was an ear infection which I still worked with. I have a policy that if I can't make a wedding I'll use the full payment received to find another and there is a fairly decent support network amongst togs in case of an emergency. (Considering how many complain about the lack of work).

If I wasn't able to make a wedding I couldn't trust it to a $250 assistant and here in the UK that amount is 15-20% of what most togs charge to cover the wedding.

I've always found that assistants contribute very little to the final images because they don't shoot like I do or have the same eye. It's why I don't have them unless the couple wants one. I saw somewhere in a UK forum about how togs pay their assistants $75 for the day, this is too little to pay anyone for a days work IMO.

$75 might be about right for an assistant, depending on experience and length of the session. An assistant isn't a photographer, so they usually just carry and hold stuff...a relatively easy job.

I'm a big believer in assistants and one is always there (even if there's also a second photographer) and included in my price. The reality is, they're either one of my now adult sons (for whom the business is named; I'm not Robert Wayne), but they're trained, professional, and paid. They help me with anything from carrying and protecting the gear to getting the truck when it's time to change locations. The most important thing they do for me is hold and control off-camera flashes.

As I explain it to clients, assistants don't increase the number of images; they increase the quality.

If they want a second shooter, that's going to cost them. That doesn't happen very often; maybe only 10% of the time.

I only want the best for my 2nd shooter. Really, dont just hire someone who is building their portfolio. Actually spend $300+ and get a seasoned photographer whose work you respect. It will make your set a lot better as a whole! This for example are taken at the same time.

Always interesting to read threads about 1 or 2 photographers for a wedding.

With a small wedding ( under 50 people ) it can be over kill having 2 photographers.
After a while the guests start getting the haven't you and your other photographer taken enough photos of me look.

On the other hand, it's really hard to be everywhere when there are 150 to 300 guests.

Wait till you guys start photographing asian weddings with 400 plus guests. My last indian wedding had 450 guests. My overseas indian wedding I photographed had nearly 650 guests. You will surely need 2 photographers trust me. The main photographer is busy capturing the ceremony which goes for hours sometimes (last wedding was 3), and the 2nd photographer capturing the guests and other things.

I guess with western weddings it will be different and one photographer should be enough for most normal weddings.