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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 29 Nov 2011 (Tuesday) 20:12
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Made a Stupid Decision, Any Advice?

 
S.Horton
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Dec 01, 2011 06:21 |  #31

Then she knows all about legal aid.

When dinos roamed the earth, I was a bill collector. I dealt with all types. I think you've been worked over as part of 'the system,' sorry to say. Live and learn.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Dec 01, 2011 07:41 as a reply to  @ post 13477617 |  #32

Virto wrote in post #13474541 (external link)
You are the copyright holder on those shots you took, you have every right to use them for whatever purpose you see fit, especially since there was no contract stating otherwise...but in the best interest of your sanity, just pull them.

Actually this isn't entirely correct. The copyright owner can display or sell the images but those images can't be used (by the copyright holder or anyone they sell the images too) for "commercial use", unless they have a signed model release form.

Note: "commercial use" means for advertising/promoting a company, product or service.


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Virto
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Dec 07, 2011 15:13 |  #33

Dan Marchant wrote in post #13478844 (external link)
Actually this isn't entirely correct. The copyright owner can display or sell the images but those images can't be used (by the copyright holder or anyone they sell the images too) for "commercial use", unless they have a signed model release form.

Note: "commercial use" means for advertising/promoting a company, product or service.

Good point, I'll have to remember that. I haven't had to run into an issue with either commercial use or model releases, since I'm a nobody. :)

Thanks for clearing it up, I'll amend my mental file.


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Dec 07, 2011 17:57 |  #34

Dude, anyone so much as jokes about suing and you get yo ass outta dodge y'hear?

These are the sort that sleep with a stranger and end up on Jerry Springer accusing some other guy.


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ultimachi
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Dec 07, 2011 18:38 as a reply to  @ Gel's post |  #35

bobbyt2012 wrote in post #13477617 (external link)
Thanks for all the feedback. When I said "fallen on hard times" in the original post, this was a pretty big understatement. She had no way of paying because she is completely dependent on government assistance. I didn't even know this person, but I was asked to help her out since she's in a sad situation. She apparently has a pretty strong sense of entitlement. Oh well, like many of you have said, learn and move on.


- Feels a strong sense of entitlement
- Depends on the government to eek her way through life
- Wants everything for free
- Doesn't give 2 sh!ts about YOU

Sounds like a great OWS candidate. She IS.....the 99%


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Dec 07, 2011 19:42 |  #36

ultimachi wrote in post #13510688 (external link)
- Feels a strong sense of entitlement
- Depends on the government to eek her way through life
- Wants everything for free
- Doesn't give 2 sh!ts about YOU

Sounds like a great OWS candidate. She IS.....the 99%

PERFECT!!!


Late to the topic....

GIVE HER WHAT SHE PAID YOU>>>>NOTHING

Take photos down...dont you dare give her i file....that is what she is expecting....something for nothing...who cares if it cost someone else!!


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tomcat7886
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Dec 07, 2011 21:08 |  #37

sad to hear this OP's plight. I would have removed all images on the website and probably don't give an F abt her. Better still, i would delete all the images straight from the SD card infront her if i had the chance. Nuff said.


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Madwrench
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Dec 08, 2011 10:19 as a reply to  @ tomcat7886's post |  #38

I agree with the "delete the photos and give her nothing" responses.

I have owned a small service business (not photography) for last 25 years, and I can tell you that there is absolutely no such thing as doing something for "free". There is ALWAYS cost, and someone ALWAYS pays, it's just a question of whether it's the client or you. As someone else said above, there are plenty more babies to shoot if you want to add to your portfolio. And now you know what the pre-shoot conversation should entail.

Judging from her attitude on this, I would venture to guess that her "hard times" may well be due to her bad decisions.




  
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Channel ­ One
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Dec 08, 2011 10:58 |  #39

bobbyt2012 wrote in post #13477617 (external link)
She had no way of paying because she is completely dependent on government assistance. I didn't even know this person, but I was asked to help her out since she's in a sad situation.

Well that certainly might complicate matters a bit, who asked you to do this work and if you blow off the ungrateful mother will this damage your relationship with that person?

If the answer is no damage, then send that mom nothing, period, as doing so might give the appearance that you are trying to complete a transaction giving her a good hunk of rope to hang you with later.

If the answer is yes then you have some real tough decisions to make.

She apparently has a pretty strong sense of entitlement. Oh well, like many of you have said, learn and move on.



After a few generations the entitlement mentality becomes inbred.

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nathancarter
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Dec 09, 2011 10:54 |  #40

I would cut off contact and give nothing, but don't delete the images. Back them up to a disc or something - just in case. The mother may change her mind one day, and apologize, and sign a model release.

The mother has almost no rights in this situation, she just has yet to realize it, because she's not familiar with any of this (copyrights, contracts, etc). I'm certain that she is under the (incorrect) impression that since the photos are of her special baby, she owns the copyright and she is free to use all 250 images as she sees fit.

Chalk it up to a lesson learned. Get your hands on a model release as well as a basic TFP contract.


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Dec 11, 2011 02:04 |  #41

Don't even give her a disk. Making one will take time and you spent enough on her already. She gets nothing since you're already at a loss and can't capitalize.


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Dec 11, 2011 03:06 as a reply to  @ cdifoto's post |  #42

An interesting read and lesson for sure. I had a similar (though opposite) experience recently with a free shoot at a childs 1st birthday - 20 adults + 20 kids.
I was approached to do the shoot and being asked by a military family I thought I would go the extra mile to help those who serve (When I agreed I was thinking the father was serving abroad).
Shoot went well and I processed and uploaded the best 554 hi res images to my pic site. I was pleased with how the pics came out and knew she would love them. I e-mailed her the link for the site with an explanation for how to download images etc. I had other relatives asking for pics so I expected some demand on the site. The picture page received 1 hit the day of the e-mail and from that hit only one thumbnail was opened. I e-mailed her a few days later asking if there were any problems and again included the link. 2 weeks later - No more hits. No response.

This was my first shoot for a complete unknown person and will be my last free/uncontracted shoot too. I shot a friends wedding a few years ago with a similar lackluster response from them. I think if it is free the appreciation of the work is non existent. If they pay for it they will appreciate your efforts more. Lesson learned.


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Dec 11, 2011 09:05 |  #43

People take care of things they invest hard earned money in. They abuse things that were free or cheap.

They'll either treat you like one of those free cell phones:

"Why do you throw that thing around like that?"
"Oh I don't care, I didn't pay anything for it."

Or like a high end smart phone:

"Why are you so obsessive about your damned phone?"
"Dude it cost me a week's pay! I'ma baby this thing because I need it to last!"


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Numenorean
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Dec 11, 2011 12:39 |  #44

If there was no payment or written contract then tell her she can have the 20 photos that you produced, or she can have nothing. If she argues, tell her to go pound sand.


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Dec 11, 2011 13:22 |  #45

Numenorean wrote in post #13527392 (external link)
If there was no payment or written contract then tell her she can have the 20 photos that you produced, or she can have nothing. If she argues, tell her to go pound sand.

NO WAY!!! She can BUY prints!!! No such thing as have in this case!


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