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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Weddings & Other Family Events 
Thread started 04 Dec 2011 (Sunday) 17:57
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First time as a second shooter yesterday..

 
goodnightarizona
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Dec 08, 2011 10:15 |  #16

I have to say, I absolutely adore your 7th photo. It's a great scene and you did a great job with it!

Personally, the PP is too blue for my taste, but I appreciate your artistic take on it.




  
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Dec 08, 2011 10:16 |  #17

You're right about that. Definitely a fact. I did change the hue and tone of the shadow areas of her gown. I definitely did decide to process the image with a cyan hue. Oh, and Picasso was a fool for painting that guitarist blue! People aren't blue?!

Disclaimer: I am in no way comparing this work to the genius Picasso. Merely pointing out the fact that this is a silly thing to argue about. Art is subjective. Fact - I'm not a fan of Picasso, or modern / abstract art in general. But I don't really think that Picasso needs to go back to art school and get a grip on color theory either.

digidiva wrote in post #13513334 (external link)
You may see or wish to interpret your images a certain way, however your processing makes the bridal gown appear blue. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Pretty sure if the bride wanted a blue dress she would have bought one.


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Dec 08, 2011 10:18 |  #18

Thanks! And I appreciate your critique. Taste is indeed subjective. Just don't tell anyone else in this thread that I may in fact agree that its a little heavy on the cyan. But I wanted it that way. It might depend on the monitor too. I work on an iMac that I use mainly for graphic design. I have a very warm tint to the screen. It's not calibrated for photographic work.

goodnightarizona wrote in post #13513359 (external link)
I have to say, I absolutely adore your 7th photo. It's a great scene and you did a great job with it!

Personally, the PP is too blue for my taste, but I appreciate your artistic take on it.


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thallikar
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Dec 08, 2011 10:21 |  #19

I love the photos. Great work. Nice composition.


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Dec 08, 2011 10:34 |  #20

Question - that shot in the limo with the glass in the way - it just happened that way. What do you guys think about yelling, 'hey, one more but move that glass a little!'? Its a serious question. I was kind of trying to disappear for most of the day. Especially in my role as the 2nd shooter. I never had access to the best angles or any of that anyway. But if I had been the 1st photographer, would it have been bad form to ask to have the shot more formally posed? In fact, she saw my camera and raised her glass in a very impromptu manner. Obviously I can yell (I was about 20 feet away in the front seat of the limo) but everyone was just lost in having a good time. I didn't want to shout out an order and maybe ruin the moment.

Autonomous wrote in post #13494977 (external link)
while it's not bad, there's something about these pictures that attracts me as the audience in a good way, it looks clean, nice processing, but still inconsistent. i would say you did a very good job being that it was your first time doing this!
#2 would've been way so much better hadn't the champagne glass got in the way of the groom's face. #3, not really sure what's going on there, it seems all over the place and unnecessary.
i think it's best if you can avoid group shots, unless if you can get them to look at your camera or use a wide angle.


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Autonomous
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Dec 08, 2011 10:54 |  #21

Seventeen Nineteen wrote in post #13513444 (external link)
Question - that shot in the limo with the glass in the way - it just happened that way. What do you guys think about yelling, 'hey, one more but move that glass a little!'? Its a serious question. I was kind of trying to disappear for most of the day. Especially in my role as the 2nd shooter. I never had access to the best angles or any of that anyway. But if I had been the 1st photographer, would it have been bad form to ask to have the shot more formally posed? In fact, she saw my camera and raised her glass in a very impromptu manner. Obviously I can yell (I was about 20 feet away in the front seat of the limo) but everyone was just lost in having a good time. I didn't want to shout out an order and maybe ruin the moment.

this is where creativity comes in. you work with whatever is given to you, the space available, you could've leaned the camera to your left a little and so on. it's all on your mind, but if that's the best you can do despite the situation, then so be it. simple as that. ;)



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Dec 08, 2011 10:56 |  #22

Sounds good. I would love to have leaned a bit more to the left, but that would have meant sitting in the drivers lap or elbowing him in the face! Not an option!

I guess sometimes your just left with the best you can do. That's kind of what I thought. Thanks for the response.

Autonomous wrote in post #13513563 (external link)
this is where creativity comes in. you work with whatever is given to you, the space available, you could've leaned the camera to your left a little and so on. it's all on your mind, but if that's the best you can do despite the situation, then so be it. simple as that. ;)


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Dec 08, 2011 12:46 |  #23

what do you guys think?

I am not sure what to say now *L*

As not to offend you and get into specifics. I would say it is an ok set with processing that I do not like...

That is what I think :)


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Dec 08, 2011 13:16 |  #24

Seriously, that is ridiculous. There are ways to criticize without being offensive. You don't have to accuse someone of not understanding basic color theory to say that you don't agree with how files were post processed, do you? Its pretty easy to say, 'I don't agree with the processing...'. I have no problem with that.

What exactly was hard about 'I would say it is an ok set with processing that I do not like...'? What did you want to say instead? That's the part that I don't understand.

scorpio_e wrote in post #13514133 (external link)
what do you guys think?

I am not sure what to say now *L*

As not to offend you and get into specifics. I would say it is an ok set with processing that I do not like...

That is what I think :)


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Dec 08, 2011 15:55 |  #25

OK my opinion.
I am not a fan of the processing. Just my personal taste.

#1 is a quick grab shot and they are not looking at you.
#2 is tilted and the wine glass is right in his face
#3 has some potential The camera the person has in their hand is not in focus. Two out of focus images do not work for me.
#4 Nice image but no one is looking at the camera. Honestly looks like it was taken by a guest
#5 Nice image but I would like to see more of his face
#6 Almost works but the sign is a distraction and more of the groom would have been nice
#7 I like the moment and the processing. A very nice image
#8 I like this one too. Nice dancing image

Just my opinions.


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Dec 08, 2011 16:52 |  #26

Seven and eight are good moments - I think #1 is actually nice, but too centered, I'd crop some on the left side and I think it'd be much stronger. I also think it would be nice as a B&W. I can see your eye is good, just need some more practice but you show potential.


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chris ­ ho
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Dec 08, 2011 18:22 |  #27

Seventeen Nineteen wrote in post #13513349 (external link)
I appreciate criticism and it makes me think and evaluate my choices. But I don't necessarily need to be accused of something like not understanding color or waiting around to get things right in post. That's not a criticism, its an accusation. And an unfair one at that.

People have given me some valuable things to think about, like that annoying red light in the limo, for one. Or watching my horizon lines, or my crop choices, etc.

I think people don't understand what criticism is and how it should be applied: the act or art of analyzing and evaluating or judging the quality of a literary or artistic work, musical performance, art exhibit, dramatic production, etc.

Your job as a critic is to judge the work based on what you're presented, and not to question whether or not the artist knows how to use the medium or understand the tools. There's just no point in doing that.

I feel you all on this lol. You can definitely take it into consideration and learn from it. I don't let it get to me only because everybody has different taste, processing, etc. Can't satisfy everyone lol.


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Dec 08, 2011 20:52 |  #28

17-19 : For the record, I never accused you of not understanding color. You said:

Seventeen Nineteen wrote in post #13497353 (external link)
...but I was well schooled in composition, color theory and everything else that you would expect to be part of a top art school education. Its mostly getting used to the fundamentals and equipment familiarity, and the art of post processing.

And I advised you to focus on the fundamentals first. If you want to start out trying every whim that you "feel" like trying, you'll be all over the board and won't learn nearly as much as if you would perhaps take it a bit slower. And I would also advise you to be less sensitive. It's unbecoming and frankly, you won't learn as much.

Yes, of course you won't agree with every comment about your work, but being so defensive discourages others from commenting and closes your own mind to the good and comes across as arrogant.

Seventeen Nineteen wrote in post #13513297 (external link)
My job, as I see it, is to interpret a scene with my artistic aesthetic. I'll leave capturing reality exactly as it is to the point and shoot crowd.

Please don't say these things. Please? There are PLENTY of awesome, amazing photographers (that command huge fees, btw) that "capture reality exactly as it is" who deserve more than being called the "point and shoot crowd". Respect your profession, and those who have been doing it for years. So you're new, and we want to encourage you and support you (which includes criticism and advise) and hope that you'll listen to some of it and maybe, just maybe, be a little better for it in the end. ;)


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Dec 09, 2011 08:07 |  #29

I suppose I'll address this is two parts. (edit - lots of parts, sorry)

First - thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts. I appreciate the advice on color and learning the medium. However I'm still not quite sure what you're trying to tell me, or what you'd rather see me attempt to do in my photography. I'm not trying to argue, I'm trying to understand. You said, 'Just learn your medium first. Real contrast, real color. Then after you've gotten the hang of a lot of the other stuff, you can begin to play with your post.' What other stuff are you talking about? What have I gotten so wrong in my images that would warrant doing nothing in post? I'm not defending my photos, as I know I can improve and nothing in art is perfect.

Having said that, your advice would actually make more sense in a film environment, where it is vitally important to understand the chemical process in order to achieve real colors and nice contrast and saturation, however, it makes a lot less sense in the digital world. The colors straight out of the camera, especially in outdoor light, are basically correct. So aside from exposure, composition and framing, what else is there to get right aside from focus? And not having one of these elements done perfectly is enough to warrant avoiding any and all post work or applying your own creative and artistic aesthetic to an image? Should I avoid B+W photography? I'm trying to understand what you're saying.

Secondly you advise me not to try things. To not be 'all over the board' or I will 'not learn as much.' What should I (and presumably all people new to photography) be doing instead? If I hadn't tried that particular type of processing then I suppose I wouldn't have learned that people seem to view it as overly cyan, right? What if I had tried that sort of processing 10,000 frames down the road, only to learn it then. Would that have been better? Would I have learned more in doing zero post work?

On the topic of criticism. I have no problem at all with valid criticism. I do have a problem with someone being offensive in a forum where there is no consequence involved in offending someone. Don't write what you wouldn't say to someone in person. I can't defend distracting elements in my photos, or crooked horizon lines or any of that stuff, nor would I. That is constructive advice. Telling me that 'the bride would have bought a blue dress if she wanted one' is, at worst, stupid and at best, unnecessary. What's so hard about writing 'overly cyan in my view'? You can expect me to at least explain my artistic choices if not defend them. I'm allowed to make an argument, just as you are allowed to give an opinion, or make your own argument. No one in a free society who wishes to take part in a discussion should expect to be exempt from defending their viewpoints.

Finally, I'm sure there are all kinds of big name, huge fee commanding photographers out there who do no post work other than making their colors and contrast perfect. I was attempting to be facetious. However, its just not the kind of photography that I want to be doing right now, nor did I think it was appropriate considering the venue. Yet another choice I'm free to make.

I'm fairly new and I'm learning. I'm trying different things in the digital darkroom because its fun and I think that capturing the moment, or taking the picture, is about 5% of what I enjoy about the medium. I'm sure my style will change many times over the next year, if not the next month. I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with that approach.

I appreciate your advice very much, but as it stands, I'm not sure what I would be doing if I followed it. But I will give my post choices more thought, and try and stay a bit more true, in some cases, than I have in the photos that I posted as.

collierportraits wrote in post #13516220 (external link)
17-19 : For the record, I never accused you of not understanding color. You said:

And I advised you to focus on the fundamentals first. If you want to start out trying every whim that you "feel" like trying, you'll be all over the board and won't learn nearly as much as if you would perhaps take it a bit slower. And I would also advise you to be less sensitive. It's unbecoming and frankly, you won't learn as much.

Yes, of course you won't agree with every comment about your work, but being so defensive discourages others from commenting and closes your own mind to the good and comes across as arrogant.

Please don't say these things. Please? There are PLENTY of awesome, amazing photographers (that command huge fees, btw) that "capture reality exactly as it is" who deserve more than being called the "point and shoot crowd". Respect your profession, and those who have been doing it for years. So you're new, and we want to encourage you and support you (which includes criticism and advise) and hope that you'll listen to some of it and maybe, just maybe, be a little better for it in the end. ;)


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Dec 09, 2011 08:11 |  #30

Thanks for taking the time to post.

#4 - Again, I'm the 2nd photographer here. They were looking at the 1st photographers camera, which was a wide angle, so instead of providing a pointless and redundant wide shot, I decided to go tight. But fair enough, you make a valid point. Sucked not having the best positions all day.

Basically no one was looking directly at my camera all day. The role of 2nd shooter makes that hard, unless I was just fundamentally doing something wrong. In which case, I need advice!

scorpio_e wrote in post #13514965 (external link)
OK my opinion.
I am not a fan of the processing. Just my personal taste.

#1 is a quick grab shot and they are not looking at you.
#2 is tilted and the wine glass is right in his face
#3 has some potential The camera the person has in their hand is not in focus. Two out of focus images do not work for me.
#4 Nice image but no one is looking at the camera. Honestly looks like it was taken by a guest
#5 Nice image but I would like to see more of his face
#6 Almost works but the sign is a distraction and more of the groom would have been nice
#7 I like the moment and the processing. A very nice image
#8 I like this one too. Nice dancing image

Just my opinions.


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