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Thread started 09 Dec 2011 (Friday) 06:35
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Protecting against smoke?

 
Shadow ­ on ­ the ­ Door
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Dec 12, 2011 08:24 |  #76
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Lacks_focus wrote in post #13531177 (external link)
That's truly sad. Where will the loss of personal freedom end?

Personally, I'm quite enjoying my new found freedom to breathe clean air wherever I go.


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Lacks_focus
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Dec 12, 2011 08:39 |  #77

Lacks_focus wrote in post #13531177 (external link)
That's truly sad. Where will the loss of personal freedom end?

My comment really had very little to do with the subject of smoking...


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tkbslc
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Dec 12, 2011 09:52 |  #78

I just think they should ban it or don't. If it is so harmful, stop taking money from the tobacco lobby and stop counting on tax revenue from it's sale, and just ban the sale of it altogether. If you want to keep selling it, stop blaming everything on tobacco. You can't have it both ways. (Well I guess they can and do, but it is quite hypocritical).


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RTPVid
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Dec 12, 2011 09:59 |  #79

DStanic wrote in post #13531192 (external link)
...People should have the right to go in an establishment and not having to breath in huge amounts of second hand smoke as well as make their clothes smell terrible.....

Why? Do they own the property? Are there non-smoking establishments they could choose to frequent instead? Why to "people" have "rights" to what legal activity a property owner can do or not do, allow or not allow, on his own property?

My objection to this creeping tyranny (strong word, but accurate) has nothing to do with smoker's rights. As stated above, make smoking illegal if it is so harmful. My objection has to do with the loss of property rights by the property owner based on what "people" force into law. Some of it out of unverifiable hyperbole and fear-mongering; some of it out of pure selfishness that what "I" want "I" should always have provided for "me".


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DAMphyne
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Dec 12, 2011 11:23 |  #80

RTPVid wrote in post #13531857 (external link)
Why? Do they own the property? Are there non-smoking establishments they could choose to frequent instead? Why to "people" have "rights" to what legal activity a property owner can do or not do, allow or not allow, on his own property?

My objection to this creeping tyranny (strong word, but accurate) has nothing to do with smoker's rights. As stated above, make smoking illegal if it is so harmful. My objection has to do with the loss of property rights by the property owner based on what "people" force into law. Some of it out of unverifiable hyperbole and fear-mongering; some of it out of pure selfishness that what "I" want "I" should always have provided for "me".

Hear Hear.
When they take away your right to legal activity, and your control of your own property, I'll feel sorry for all the anti-smoking cry babies too.


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Shadow ­ on ­ the ­ Door
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Dec 12, 2011 14:46 |  #81
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tkbslc wrote in post #13531828 (external link)
I just think they should ban it or don't. If it is so harmful, stop taking money from the tobacco lobby and stop counting on tax revenue from it's sale, and just ban the sale of it altogether. If you want to keep selling it, stop blaming everything on tobacco. You can't have it both ways. (Well I guess they can and do, but it is quite hypocritical).

We all know why they're doing it, so many economies are based around the sale and purchasing of tobacco that it would lead the world into a severe recession if it was banned, and no politician wants their name behind something like that, plus let's be honest, it keeps populations down and medical bills up.


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Lacks_focus
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Dec 12, 2011 15:10 as a reply to  @ DAMphyne's post |  #82

My wife is one of 4 kids who grew up in a home where both parents were heavy smokers. Not one of them smokes now, or has ever smoked. None of them suffer health problems due to living in the house. The parents were also heavy drinkers. Two of the 4 siblings are now also heavy drinkers as adults. Maybe we should ban consuming alcohol in public and around children, even in your own home? How many would stand up and be outraged by that? I think you could find plenty of proof to put together an argument that alcohol affects children negatively. Or how about someone with their panties about two sizes too tight decides that taking pictures of children, in this digital age, promotes exploitation of the children due to the ease of distributing or pirating those photos? How about said tight-panty wearer gets a movement started that ends in the ban of any photography of children under 18 years old, even your own kids? Sound crazy? I’ll bet banning smoking in cars carrying children sounded a bit far fetched several years ago too. Certainly there is enough evidence available in our overly “correct” world that photography of minors is a risk and may lead to exploitation. Would you be outraged at that? Would you stand up and defend the right to photograph your own children, or to make a living photographing youth sporting events? My point is simply this: In a society that values personal freedom yet is also a society of laws and democracy, you need to stand up for all personal freedoms. You cannot pick and choose which personal freedoms to give away. You’re either for defending freedom or you are not. Every piece of freedom we give away is a loss to the society as a whole. You open the door for more freedoms to go away. You may think it’s just fine to ban smoking if you do not smoke, but that same smoker may not care at all whether or not you can take pictures at your child’s soccer game. Something to consider when you start talking about being happy that a fellow citizen’s right to do something legal was taken away.


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Dec 12, 2011 17:09 as a reply to  @ post 13519349 |  #83

To the original poster, sell your camera lest you touch it to take a picture.
All I can say is wow!!!




  
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Dec 12, 2011 17:39 |  #84

Lacks_focus wrote in post #13531177 (external link)
That's truly sad. Where will the loss of personal freedom end?

You're right, we should protect the freedom to harm your babies by exposing them to second-hand smoking.

I grew up in Canada, and let me tell you, the change that happened after they outlawed smoking in clubs and stuff was profound. It was absolutely disgusting and going home we all smelled like ashtrays. Now I'm in Korea where there are some BEACHES where smoking is 100% banned...I wholly support smoking bans in buildings, cars with children, parks, etc...everyone should have the "personal freedom" to not be bothered by secondhand smoke.

And don't bring up the crap that you should have the freedom to do whatever you want...if I walked around with no pants on, that would not harm anyone (especially not to the degree secondhand smoke has been proven to be harmful), and yet it's illegal. Deal with it, or go live in a cave a thousand miles from the nearest paved road.


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LowriderS10
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Dec 12, 2011 17:42 |  #85

Lacks_focus wrote in post #13533516 (external link)
I’ll bet banning smoking in cars carrying children sounded a bit far fetched several years ago too. .

Going to jail for sexually or physically assaulting your spouse sounded "far fetched" years ago as well...just because something that we now know is wrong was tolerated in the past doesn't make it crazy. Societies evolve...maybe you should too ;)


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Bang ­ Bang ­ Boy
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Dec 12, 2011 17:52 |  #86

Don't worry, I've shot inside a burning house. No prob, just make sure you wipe it off with some alcohol.


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Dec 12, 2011 17:55 |  #87

So you think it's cool to force someone to make their club non-smoking even though they post the intent to allow smoking on the premises. What right does your personal indignation have to tell me what to do. Do you drink alcohol? Do you feed your kids sugar? Do you advocate restricting guns? What rights are you unwilling to give up?

To the OP, I don't think a few minutes of exposure to second hand cigarette smoke will harm you or your camera. But I'm very puzzled that you would have anything to do with a smoker.


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Lacks_focus
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Dec 12, 2011 18:32 |  #88

Lacks_focus wrote in post #13533516 (external link)
In a society that values personal freedom yet is also a society of laws and democracy.

Something to consider when you start talking about being happy that a fellow citizen’s right to do something legal was taken away.

LowriderS10 wrote in post #13534402 (external link)
outlawed smoking in clubs and stuff was profound.

***Really, you go to clubs? You know, it is absolutely PROVEN that being around the kind of immoral debauchery and loud music that goes on in those dens of SIN are a serious drag on club goer’s health and the heath of society at large. I really feel such activities should be banned FOR YOUR OWN GOOD... What do you think, are you with me, should we start something up and shut down all clubs?***

And don't bring up the crap that you should have the freedom to do whatever you want...if I walked around with no pants on, that would not harm anyone (especially not to the degree secondhand smoke has been proven to be harmful), and yet it's illegal.

LowriderS10 wrote in post #13534418 (external link)
Going to jail for sexually or physically assaulting your spouse sounded "far fetched" years ago as well...just because something that we now know is wrong was tolerated in the past doesn't make it crazy. Societies evolve...maybe you should too ;)

You've so completely missed my point that it is frankly frightening. I am in no way advocating anyone should be allowed to do as they want. I clearly said we are a society of laws and democracy. If society has evolved to the point that we agree something should be banned or regulated that had long been a right (perceived or actual), smoking for one simple example, then so be it. Where you have to be careful is in misinformation applied to sway the majority to vote or allow something such as that to happen. There are too many examples of this to even get started. My two examples of consuming alcohol around children and photographing children are unfortunately plausible and it wouldn't shock me if they were to come true some day. I strongly believe in personal choice within the limits of the society I was raised in and do not need to be told how to protect myself from myself or how to raise my children. My parents did that already, and did pretty well at it all things considered. I’d like to see my children be able to pass on the values instilled in them by my wife and me into their own children someday. The possibility of that happening gets bleaker by the year.


Anyway, I'm out. I need to go drink a beer naked in front of neighbors house… This one’s gotten too off topic even for me, and that's saying something! OP is probably sitting back laughing her ass off at where this one has gone...


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Dec 12, 2011 18:56 |  #89

DAMphyne wrote in post #13534494 (external link)
Do you drink alcohol? Do you feed your kids sugar? Do you advocate restricting guns? What rights are you unwilling to give up?

I drink the blood of virgins, I feed my children arsenic and cyanide and I advocate anyone with a gun to be shot by said gun. Because apparently wanting to breathe fresh air makes me the devil ;)


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jaszek
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Dec 12, 2011 19:22 |  #90

LowriderS10 wrote in post #13534402 (external link)
...if I walked around with no pants on, that would not harm anyone (especially not to the degree secondhand smoke has been proven to be harmful), and yet it's illegal. Deal with it, or go live in a cave a thousand miles from the nearest paved road.

Actually, walking pantless is totally legal in many parts of the world. Also I can prove that walking around topless on the street is legal in NYC, and probably most parts of the world.

And last time I checked, clubs that allow smoking, have separate areas where you can go smoke, no one is forcing you to go in there.




  
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