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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 13 Dec 2011 (Tuesday) 15:59
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Could use other opinions

 
whotaketh
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Dec 13, 2011 15:59 |  #1

First, what I shoot: assorted range of things, but mostly portraits (not in the studio thus far), candids, low-light (especially now since it gets dark at 4pm). I want something that shoots well in low-light, and by that I mean an bang on AF and has the ability to shoot clean shots up to around 6400. I don't do videos.

Second, my gear. I've got a 60D and a 5D2, which work well enough when it's bright out, like any decent body should. Low-light (this is a revolving theme here), is the issue. The 60D is meh, to put it bluntly in terms of high-ISO quality and AF when shooting indoors/at night, and the 5D2 is absolutely terrible when it comes to AF in that regard (though I'd be hard pressed to get usable images at ISO 12800 from another camera after running it through post). My other lenses should be in my sig (including an unlisted 85 1.8)

So my question is three-fold. One, will either of the 1-series bodies solve my issues? I'd like to take full advantage of my 24 which is why I'm leaning towards the 1ds line, but having never handled one, is the ISO ceiling of 1600-3200 a dealbreaker for most users out there? Yes I realize there is something called a flash, but sometimes I can't use one so I maintain my concern.

The second question: are there are any options I haven't looked into? I'm open to new techniques, and it's possible (and quite likely) that I've forgotten to mention something here, so I'm all ears.

Third, and I fear that this is the answer to my long-winded post, is a switch to Nikon inevitable? Hold the stones and rotten fruit. The D700 has great AF, is full-frame, and trounces the 60D in low-light and arguably gives the 5D2 a run for its money.

I'd like to stay with Canon since I've already got the gear. I have brand loyalty, but only to a point, and unless there's something I'm missing/forgetting, Canon's gear doesn't suit my style and needs as much as Nikon does.


- 60D(w/ Zeikos grip) - 5d2 - 70-200 f2.8L IS I - 85 1.8 - Sigma 50 1.4 DG HSM - 24 1.4L II - 580EX II

  
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Preeb
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Dec 13, 2011 17:15 |  #2

1Dx when it's released. ISO supposed to go to something like 112,000. Probably wouldn't be much more expensive than replacing everything with Nikon.


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whotaketh
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Dec 13, 2011 18:16 |  #3

Preeb wrote in post #13540013 (external link)
1Dx when it's released. ISO supposed to go to something like 112,000. Probably wouldn't be much more expensive than replacing everything with Nikon.

In my dreams ;) I didn't think it would cost that much to switch though. I won't be able to replicate my entire collection here, but it would come close, no?


- 60D(w/ Zeikos grip) - 5d2 - 70-200 f2.8L IS I - 85 1.8 - Sigma 50 1.4 DG HSM - 24 1.4L II - 580EX II

  
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Wilt
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Dec 14, 2011 10:34 |  #4

Go to DP Review, look at the noise comparison page in the test reports of a recent Canon dSLR and the comparison to Nikon.

http://www.dpreview.co​m …noneos1dmarkIV/​page29.asp (external link)

The D700 might compare well to Sony, but unfortunately there is no direct comparison to Canon
http://www.dpreview.co​m/reviews/nikond700/pa​ge30.asp (external link)

The Nikon D3S will cost you $5500 for its high ISO performance, and then you have to buy all new lenses, to boot. I suggest you wait to see what the Canon 1Dx brings, before eating the cost of switching brands.


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tfizzle
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Dec 14, 2011 16:17 |  #5

put cash toward a nice remote lighting system? either speedlights or alienbees? When I KNOW that it's going to be a low light event I know I'm either going to crank the ISO or use flashes. I can remedy the AF problems doing this:

Place a speedlight with cybersync in one part of the scene or multiple ones around wherever. I can also break out my 2 strobes (white lightning 1600 and ab800) and softbox them toward the subject. And then use a cybersync transmitter plugged into the pc sync cord to fire the strobes. This takes care of high ISO. To alleviate AF troubles I then can use my 430 on camera and do exposure comp and bounce it or just ettl and bounce it via manual to light the subject and then set my strobes to light the room behind them...drag the shutter just a bit for whatever ambient light to soften the strobe look. The AF assist on the 430ex takes care of the low light AF troubles and the strobes light the room. I hope that makes sense.

My guess to get that setup would be appx. $800 or so off the top of my head. You could also build a kit of all yungnuo and ebay triggers for $350ish if you don't want to bring out studio strobes. And if you don't have power where you are that would be good but you could also get a vagabond mini to power a strobe, etc.




  
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whotaketh
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Dec 14, 2011 17:00 |  #6

Wilt wrote in post #13543660 (external link)
Go to DP Review, look at the noise comparison page in the test reports of a recent Canon dSLR and the comparison to Nikon.

http://www.dpreview.co​m …noneos1dmarkIV/​page29.asp (external link)

The D700 might compare well to Sony, but unfortunately there is no direct comparison to Canon
http://www.dpreview.co​m/reviews/nikond700/pa​ge30.asp (external link)

The Nikon D3S will cost you $5500 for its high ISO performance, and then you have to buy all new lenses, to boot. I suggest you wait to see what the Canon 1Dx brings, before eating the cost of switching brands.

I did take a look at that, but found the lack of direct comparison a bit of a stumbling block there. I found a reverse comparing the 5D2 with the D700 as far as noise comparisons go though. I definitely like how the D700 brings 5D2 high-ISO along with good AF to the table.

I was hoping to stay away from the flagship pro bodies since I've yet to make a cent off this stuff. I really can't justify a body that costs as much as my lenses, as much as I'd love to have it, thus waiting for the 1DX to come out and for the 1DS III to drop.

Either way, it looks like I'll wait til the new stuff comes out and settles before making a move.


- 60D(w/ Zeikos grip) - 5d2 - 70-200 f2.8L IS I - 85 1.8 - Sigma 50 1.4 DG HSM - 24 1.4L II - 580EX II

  
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whotaketh
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Dec 14, 2011 17:06 |  #7

tfizzle wrote in post #13545447 (external link)
put cash toward a nice remote lighting system? either speedlights or alienbees? When I KNOW that it's going to be a low light event I know I'm either going to crank the ISO or use flashes. I can remedy the AF problems doing this:

Place a speedlight with cybersync in one part of the scene or multiple ones around wherever. I can also break out my 2 strobes (white lightning 1600 and ab800) and softbox them toward the subject. And then use a cybersync transmitter plugged into the pc sync cord to fire the strobes. This takes care of high ISO. To alleviate AF troubles I then can use my 430 on camera and do exposure comp and bounce it or just ettl and bounce it via manual to light the subject and then set my strobes to light the room behind them...drag the shutter just a bit for whatever ambient light to soften the strobe look. The AF assist on the 430ex takes care of the low light AF troubles and the strobes light the room. I hope that makes sense.

My guess to get that setup would be appx. $800 or so off the top of my head. You could also build a kit of all yungnuo and ebay triggers for $350ish if you don't want to bring out studio strobes. And if you don't have power where you are that would be good but you could also get a vagabond mini to power a strobe, etc.

that's the thing, most of the time I can't set up a lighting system set up since I'm out with people in bars, restaurants, etc... the events I have done haven't allowed flash photography, and the bridal shower I'm shooting in Feb will be at a bar (that's how they roll I guess), so there won't be room to set up anything more than an onboard flash. that's mainly the reason why I need high quality, clean, high-ISO performance and snappy AF. I probably won't find what I'm looking for unless I look at the flagship models, but those are too much $ for this just being a hobby.


- 60D(w/ Zeikos grip) - 5d2 - 70-200 f2.8L IS I - 85 1.8 - Sigma 50 1.4 DG HSM - 24 1.4L II - 580EX II

  
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tfizzle
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Dec 14, 2011 18:03 |  #8

can't you turn the flash off on the 580ex and just use the AF assist beam on the 5d2? I'm not sure if that's possible. Or you could just get an ST-E2 and use it as AF assist. You could also then move off your 580 for when you want and fire it with that. That's the only thing I'm thinking of and I don't think that another 4g's on a camera body is worth it :/

Some digging on the internet brought me this:

To get AF Assist without flash, set CF03=1 on the 580EX. This works on my XTi and I think it should work on any Canon body which is incapable of TTL.

CF03=1 forces the 580EX to TTL mode (rather than E-TTL II mode) which causes the flash not to fire when mounted on an E-TTL II body. But the AF Assist light works.

I'm not sure how true it is but the 5d can handle high ISO.

ISO 12,800, f 2.8, 1/400th

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 400 | MIME changed to 'text/html'



  
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whotaketh
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Dec 15, 2011 13:47 |  #9

tfizzle wrote in post #13545891 (external link)
can't you turn the flash off on the 580ex and just use the AF assist beam on the 5d2? I'm not sure if that's possible. Or you could just get an ST-E2 and use it as AF assist. You could also then move off your 580 for when you want and fire it with that. That's the only thing I'm thinking of and I don't think that another 4g's on a camera body is worth it :/

Some digging on the internet brought me this:


I'm not sure how true it is but the 5d can handle high ISO.

ISO 12,800, f 2.8, 1/400th
IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: 400 | MIME changed to 'text/html'

hmm I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to try it the next time around.

I've definitely gone up the ladder to ISO 25,600, and had one keeper. I know it's really only for emergency use but even at 3200-6400 it requires a bit of cleanup when I import it to LR (I shoot RAW with in-camera NR set to Strong I think). The ISO noise seems rather random and blotchy, whereas examples I've seen out of the d700 yields ISO noise more like film grain. Granted, I've not yet ruled out a problem with this particular body so all of this could be premature.

It would be nice to have one body that can do the job of both the bodies I have. That way I wouldn't have to choose which one to take when space is an issue. My hope is that the 1ds III comes down to mere mortal territory once the 1DX ships :)


- 60D(w/ Zeikos grip) - 5d2 - 70-200 f2.8L IS I - 85 1.8 - Sigma 50 1.4 DG HSM - 24 1.4L II - 580EX II

  
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tonylong
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Dec 15, 2011 14:30 |  #10

whotaketh wrote in post #13549835 (external link)
hmm I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to try it the next time around.

I've definitely gone up the ladder to ISO 25,600, and had one keeper. I know it's really only for emergency use but even at 3200-6400 it requires a bit of cleanup when I import it to LR (I shoot RAW with in-camera NR set to Strong I think). The ISO noise seems rather random and blotchy, whereas examples I've seen out of the d700 yields ISO noise more like film grain. Granted, I've not yet ruled out a problem with this particular body so all of this could be premature.

It would be nice to have one body that can do the job of both the bodies I have. That way I wouldn't have to choose which one to take when space is an issue. My hope is that the 1ds III comes down to mere mortal territory once the 1DX ships :)

Except that the 1Ds3 doesn't have the high ISO range that the 5D2 does...

It sounds like the 1DX will be a Canon shooter's dream camera...:)!


Tony
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whotaketh
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Dec 16, 2011 00:23 |  #11

tonylong wrote in post #13550059 (external link)
Except that the 1Ds3 doesn't have the high ISO range that the 5D2 does...

It sounds like the 1DX will be a Canon shooter's dream camera...:)!

Yeah, I was hoping for a direct comparison between them. How clean is the 1Ds3's 3200 vs that of the 5D2?

::holds out hands:: hmm down payment on a condo, or the 1DX? :D


- 60D(w/ Zeikos grip) - 5d2 - 70-200 f2.8L IS I - 85 1.8 - Sigma 50 1.4 DG HSM - 24 1.4L II - 580EX II

  
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tonylong
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Dec 16, 2011 00:39 |  #12

I don't know how the two compare, but the 5D2 has the better rep there as well as higher settings.


Tony
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chauncey
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Dec 17, 2011 07:13 as a reply to  @ tonylong's post |  #13

It sounds like the 1DX will be a Canon shooter's dream camera

Only if they would have doubled the number of pixels. :mad:


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Preeb
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Dec 17, 2011 12:08 |  #14

chauncey wrote in post #13558282 (external link)
Only if they would have doubled the number of pixels. :mad:

From what I understand, that was deliberate. With fewer pixels they were able to make it much better in low light and high ISO. I tend to respect that fact that they seem to have made a conscious decision to get out the pixel race with Nikon in favor of looking at other advantages.

Not that any of this matters to me at the moment anyway, as I'm never paying $6800 for a camera body.


Rick
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chauncey
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Dec 17, 2011 12:48 as a reply to  @ Preeb's post |  #15

Well, Nikon is gonna be releasing a 36 MP camera...how long before Canon follows suit. I will buy it.


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Could use other opinions
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