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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 13 Dec 2011 (Tuesday) 15:59
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Could use other opinions

 
Preeb
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Dec 17, 2011 14:12 |  #16

chauncey wrote in post #13559227 (external link)
Well, Nikon is gonna be releasing a 36 MP camera...how long before Canon follows suit. I will buy it.

I'll reserve judgment until I see some photographs from the 1Dx. If it lives up to the press, I don't think that more mp is the answer. I'd rather that they improve the capability of the ones they already use. Do most people really need an image they can blow up to a billboard?

Just out of curiosity, why do you feel that 36 mp is more useful than 18 mp, or 21 mp? Quantity doesn't automatically translate to quality.


Rick
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whotaketh
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Dec 18, 2011 11:43 |  #17

Preeb wrote in post #13559503 (external link)
I'll reserve judgment until I see some photographs from the 1Dx. If it lives up to the press, I don't think that more mp is the answer. I'd rather that they improve the capability of the ones they already use. Do most people really need an image they can blow up to a billboard?

Just out of curiosity, why do you feel that 36 mp is more useful than 18 mp, or 21 mp? Quantity doesn't automatically translate to quality.

+1 21mp on the 5d2 is great and all and I love the detail, but I'd rather have the outer AF points work well and sacrifice the extra 9mp


- 60D(w/ Zeikos grip) - 5d2 - 70-200 f2.8L IS I - 85 1.8 - Sigma 50 1.4 DG HSM - 24 1.4L II - 580EX II

  
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chauncey
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Dec 18, 2011 11:52 as a reply to  @ whotaketh's post |  #18

why do you feel that 36 mp is more useful than 18 mp, or 21 mp

The fact that you ask indicates that you don't spend a great deal of time in PP...cropping, compositions, and the like, bigger is always better.


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Wilt
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Dec 18, 2011 12:24 |  #19

The ability to magnify images is NOT SIMPLY a matter of the count of pixels!!! Bigger is not always better!

If I take a 20D image magnified to 16" x 24", or I take a 7D image magnified to 16x24, for both I am magnifying the 15mm tall frame by 27x to create the 16x24 print. If I use the identical lens on both bodies, I am taking the subject resolution of the lens and dividing by 27, in the effective amount of resolution seen on the print for that subject. Assuming that my lens is an excellent one which puts 84 ll/mm on the sensor of both the 20D and the 7D, I end up with 3 ll/mm on the print...and BOTH are equally fuzzy images when viewed from 10" away!

The 20D sensor has 156 pixels/mm, so it is capable of portraying 77 line pairs per millimeter, but the lens is deliverying 84 ll/mm...the 20D is sensor limited in performance. The 7D sensor has 232 pixels/mm, so it is capable of portraying 115 line pairs per millimeter, and since the lens delivers only 84 ll/mm the 7D is lens limited in performance using the identical lens. Putting more pixels on the subject by using the 7D has only marginally improved subject detail in this example!

Pixel count primarily improves ALIASING...the ability to portray edges which are not exactly horizontal/vertical aligned to the rows and columns of pixels. With fewer pixels these edges are more 'stair stepped', with more pixels the size and visibility of the stair steps are reduced.

Bigger ('more pixels') is not better always...it can mean smaller pixels and less signal-to-noise performance in low light.
Canon discovered, with its top of line P&S cameras, that more pixels resulted in WORSE noise, and not improved IQ!

Bigger ('larger sensor') is better for enlargeability and for lower noise at high ISO, because less magnification is needed to make the same size final print and because more subject photons are captured (vs. the inherent noise of the circuitry). And that is why medium format digital > FF digital > APS-C digital > 4/3 format digital, for both ultimate enlargeability and low noise.


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tonylong
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Dec 18, 2011 20:10 |  #20

chauncey wrote in post #13558282 (external link)
Only if they would have doubled the number of pixels. :mad:

chauncey wrote in post #13559227 (external link)
Well, Nikon is gonna be releasing a 36 MP camera...how long before Canon follows suit. I will buy it.

Well, I for one will not be surprised if the 5D3 continues the high megapixel chase, with an incremental improvement in noise over the 5D2.

The 1DX is the game-changer, though. Canon took a step back in the megapixels so it coiuld take a big step forward in the IQ/low noise department. That is real news! It did that as well for the compact cameras. I haven't seen the results, but for people hungry for high ISO/low noise performance, well, it is good news indeed!

Now, I would expect the next generation of bodies/sensors to build on the successes here, increasing the megapixels as long as they can keep the gains in IQ. Full frame has a long ways to go before it matches the pixel density of, say, the 7D, and I expect that the 5D line will work towards that goal, with the equal expectation that they keep their high ISO/low noise performance a good stop better than the crop bodies.


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whotaketh
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Dec 18, 2011 20:27 |  #21

tonylong wrote in post #13565444 (external link)
Well, I for one will not be surprised if the 5D3 continues the high megapixel chase, with an incremental improvement in noise over the 5D2.

The 1DX is the game-changer, though. Canon took a step back in the megapixels so it coiuld take a big step forward in the IQ/low noise department. That is real news! It did that as well for the compact cameras. I haven't seen the results, but for people hungry for high ISO/low noise performance, well, it is good news indeed!

Now, I would expect the next generation of bodies/sensors to build on the successes here, increasing the megapixels as long as they can keep the gains in IQ. Full frame has a long ways to go before it matches the pixel density of, say, the 7D, and I expect that the 5D line will work towards that goal, with the equal expectation that they keep their high ISO/low noise performance a good stop better than the crop bodies.

Same here. It strikes me that if the 1DX is going to have everything and the kitchen sink for, well, everyone, the next 5D will be dialed back, and if the 1DX satisfies sport shooters, it would make sense that the next level down caters more to the 5d2 enthusiasts than the 7D/D700 crowd. I really wish they would put everything into each segment of their lines at different degrees though.

In any case, at this point it seems Nikon's lineup fits me better than Canon's does. Hate to say it, but I'm switching to the dark side (cue Star Wars-related quote here). If anyone is interested, all the gear in my sig is for sale - you can refer to my post on it if you want details: here.


- 60D(w/ Zeikos grip) - 5d2 - 70-200 f2.8L IS I - 85 1.8 - Sigma 50 1.4 DG HSM - 24 1.4L II - 580EX II

  
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Could use other opinions
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