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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 15 Dec 2011 (Thursday) 14:35
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Request by bride to not display any photos...

 
mtimber
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Dec 16, 2011 08:58 |  #46

sandpiper wrote in post #13553880 (external link)
I probably have then. I watch most of those types of programmes as I dabble a bit myself. Nearest I came to being on one though was selling Lorne Spicer a Border Fine Arts figurine at an antiques fair they were filming a programme at. That was for her personal collection though, nothing to do with the programme she was presenting.

Oh well, we don't want to drag the thread off topic.:lol:

I deal mainly with oriental porcelain, but dabble with european etc when necessary.

But you are right, we are taking this OT. :-)


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Dec 16, 2011 11:42 |  #47

It doesn't always mean a total loss for the photographer either, since I've never had a problem showing details or set-up shots of the venue. As long as you honor the couple's request to not to show them or their guests, the detail shots you may want to show in your portfolio or share with the venue are still fair game.


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NewHorizonPhoto
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Dec 16, 2011 17:54 |  #48

Just jumping into the thread, only read about 1/2 the posts.

I had this same situation for a September wedding. During the contract signing the bride expressed that she did not want any of her photos displayed or used without her permission. I agreed that I would contact her before making anything available publicly. After her wedding I sent her an email with about 15 images that I asked to use for my portfolio, she agreed and gave full permission to use them as I please in the future. Problem solved. She and her groom were simply private people and didn't want any embarrasing pictures of them plastered online.

Copyright issue? Maybe. Would I agree to this again? Probably.




  
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J0eybb
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Dec 16, 2011 18:03 |  #49

My sister in law does not want any pictures of her or her daughter on the internet. This same SIL will not buy anything online.


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highway0691
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Dec 16, 2011 19:34 |  #50

NewHorizonPhoto wrote in post #13556357 (external link)
Just jumping into the thread, only read about 1/2 the posts.

I had this same situation for a September wedding. During the contract signing the bride expressed that she did not want any of her photos displayed or used without her permission. I agreed that I would contact her before making anything available publicly. After her wedding I sent her an email with about 15 images that I asked to use for my portfolio, she agreed and gave full permission to use them as I please in the future. Problem solved. She and her groom were simply private people and didn't want any embarrasing pictures of them plastered online.

Copyright issue? Maybe. Would I agree to this again? Probably.

This is pretty much how it should be. Our clients (who pay us well) deserve respect and privacy.


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PeaceFire
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Dec 17, 2011 00:39 |  #51

I read about half of the replies so I'm sorry if this is already covered...

If you are still portfolio building and thus offering portfolio building prices then I would tell her you need to charge NON-portfolio building prices (whatever you plan for that to be) in order to respect her wishes. When you only have one or two weddings and you are charging bottom prices it's to get the exposure and portfolio images you need to grow. If she won't allow that, then your current prices aren't for her. She may go elsewhere but if you are working for dirt cheap already it's likely you are spending more time on shooting and editing then you are actually making (i.e. if you add it up your are making less than minimum wage) and it's not worth it. Experience is great, but time is money. If she has a popular date you may even be able to find another bride, who doesn't care if you use her images, to fill the time slot.

I'm outside of that stage so I wouldn't care if I couldn't share. In fact I've had a few weddings where I couldn't (one was due to a foster child being in the wedding party). But if this were one of my first few weddings where I needed every image I could get to build my business there's no way I would be OK with this without charging more.

But that's just my $0.02 and it seems to be going against the grain here.


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highway0691
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Dec 17, 2011 02:22 |  #52

If I were to list my motives for photographing weddings then Portfolio building would rate somewhere down the list. My primary motive for photographing weddings, dare I say is Money. And with that money my landscape photography (my passion) is enhanced. Sure weddings can be very satisfying and all that but I sure wouldn't do it for free now that I'm established.

If you're into the Portfolio building stage of your Wedding Photography career it's also likely that you wouldn't be heavily booked, so to not accept a booking on the off chance you may have a willing portfolio client for the same day would be unlikely. Take the $ and experience!!

There are other ways to build a portfolio. I've often thought about sourcing a photogenic lady or my daughter and have her dress up, or offer to shoot a wedding for free. Many of the weddings I photograph are unsuitable for promotional purposes anyhow. I tend to use, like others I suspect, beautiful, glamorous brides/couples on my website and they don't come along every wedding.


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Laouik
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Dec 17, 2011 11:05 |  #53

I see it as a sort of NDA (non-disclosure agreement). Many of the suppliers I deal with in my full-time gig must sign one, which limits the usefulness of the work they do with/for us as they can't re-use it. So the price goes up.

But it's the client's request. If I had enough in my portfolio for other clients/marketing, I'd personally have no problem with acquiescing.


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photonius
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Dec 17, 2011 18:10 |  #54

mtimber wrote in post #13553304 (external link)
The minute someone else controls YOUR images, they have in effect removed control of your copyright.

Now we can get around that with all types of odd reasoning, but if you do not have total control over your copyright (the right to use and display them as you see fit), then you have lost your copyright.

I may of course be misunderstanding copyright... :-)

But if you have copyright, it is yours to do with as you wish...


And in the OPs situation, I would agree and take the job and accept I am handing over control of those images to the client.

You can walk around and shoot what you like, you've got the copyright.
But if someone hires you, they want a service from you, and if they don't want their images plastered over the internet, then that's part of the service that they expect. The copyright is protection for you that nobody else can sell your pictures, it doesn't mean you can violate someone's privacy. So, you are invited to some movie star wedding, you think you sell the images to all the newspapers, if they don't want it?

Don't you want some privacy? Let's post your most embarrassing moments on facebook. After all, whoever took the shoot has the copyright can do whatever they want... right.




  
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Gel
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Dec 18, 2011 04:21 |  #55

I've had this a couple of times and always they are down to religious reasons.

Even so, new to photography or not there will be other weddings and this is not the norm.

So, how badly do you need the money?

Here in the UK a client can only truly dictate that specific images of themselves cannot be shown and due to privacy laws can request it be removed. Crowd shots where no one specific person is featured and photos in public places though cannot.

If they've signed the contract with this in and then stipulated different you have every right to question it. If however you have accepted the cheque after they have said this it will look bad on you to then go back to them raising it as an issue.

Lesson learned essentially.


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johnpricephotography
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Dec 18, 2011 12:25 |  #56

Having read only the first page or so reply's I also wanted to comment.

Copyright is one thing, Model release is another.
While you will own the copyright, you can not legally display the images of the happy couple without there concent (model release). Or at least that is how it is here in the UK.

In my contract I have many clauses, among these are my copyright and a model release conditions.
They sign the contract and accept the terms at the point of booking.

If they do not want me to use the photos for publicity in any shape or form then fine.
After all, if they weas a celebrity then you would have had to sign a confidentiality clause, So i treat it no different.


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Dec 20, 2011 09:16 |  #57

PeaceFire wrote in post #13557649 (external link)
I read about half of the replies so I'm sorry if this is already covered...

If you are still portfolio building and thus offering portfolio building prices then I would tell her you need to charge NON-portfolio building prices (whatever you plan for that to be) in order to respect her wishes. When you only have one or two weddings and you are charging bottom prices it's to get the exposure and portfolio images you need to grow. If she won't allow that, then your current prices aren't for her. She may go elsewhere but if you are working for dirt cheap already it's likely you are spending more time on shooting and editing then you are actually making (i.e. if you add it up your are making less than minimum wage) and it's not worth it. Experience is great, but time is money. If she has a popular date you may even be able to find another bride, who doesn't care if you use her images, to fill the time slot.

I'm outside of that stage so I wouldn't care if I couldn't share. In fact I've had a few weddings where I couldn't (one was due to a foster child being in the wedding party). But if this were one of my first few weddings where I needed every image I could get to build my business there's no way I would be OK with this without charging more.

But that's just my $0.02 and it seems to be going against the grain here.

^this.

I just encountered this sort of situation for a wedding i'm probably doing next year for a friend, who's pretty private in nature. if she weren't a friend, i would definitely charge a bit more since i wouldn't be able to use the images in my portfolio. of course, like others have mentioned, there's definitely no harm in simply asking about specific images to be used for advertising or things like that.. they may be open to it (unless they're in some crazy situation like a witness protection program or something..)


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albertaskater
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Dec 21, 2011 09:10 as a reply to  @ post 13550496 |  #58

I think it's fine to ask for extra compensation since the price of your package is rated on the fact that you own copyright.

Just be tactful when you ask if she would share her reasoning why she doesn't want anything displayed - could be professional profile reasons as stated above, could be in a witness protection program, she could have a previous BF who is a stalker, could be a phobia of public display, or simple personal preference - it could be any number of reasons and I think it's only right to allow that discussion to happen.


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lil_miss
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Dec 28, 2011 14:31 |  #59

johnpricephotography wrote in post #13563532 (external link)
Copyright is one thing, Model release is another.
While you will own the copyright, you can not legally display the images of the happy couple without there concent (model release). Or at least that is how it is here in the UK.

In my contract I have many clauses, among these are my copyright and a model release conditions.
They sign the contract and accept the terms at the point of booking.

If they do not want me to use the photos for publicity in any shape or form then fine.
After all, if they weas a celebrity then you would have had to sign a confidentiality clause, So i treat it no different.

Exactly.

Copyright and model releases are different.

I dont see it as being a problem. Our standard agreement has a model release allowing us to post images on our blog/Facebook, marketing material etc. If we wish to do billboard type things or anything major - it states we will get their specific approval. 95% have been happy with that... we've only had 2 or 3 that didnt want any photos online at all. I reminded them that our blog posts within 24 hours etc would no longer apply and they'd have to wait to see any of their photos. One couple changed their mind after they realised what that meant and they couldn't wait :) Another gave us permission to blog them, once they'd seen them and chosen which ones.

Just ask their reasoning and negotiate. It shouldnt be a deal breaker though - it's a simple request :)


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lil_miss
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Dec 29, 2011 16:53 |  #60

We've had the request once out of 120 weddings we've photographed... I'm sure there will be plenty of other weddings to display... Not respecting someone's privacy could result in many lost weddings if it's not dealt with properly...


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