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Thread started 22 Dec 2011 (Thursday) 16:07
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Time for a Medium Format Canon? 1DX let down for some...

 
Pixel ­ Boy
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Dec 22, 2011 16:07 |  #1

Now with the release of the 1DX I can't help but think that the portrait/fashion/glamo​ur/wedding etc photographers will not be benefiting from it, however sport/press etc togs will benefit from such kit with full frame 18mp and a high fps with Ethernet connection.

Is it the time for a canon medium format camera? Many togs have stuck with there 1DS mkIII or 5D mkII for higher quality images and better print quality. There are rumours of the next 5D will provide however is it time for a medium format sensor?

Hasselblad H4D 31mp £9499.00, Pentax 645D 40mp £9999.00, surely they could compete with at least the Hassy and Pentax!

Are there any other togs thinking this or have any useful information to togs thinking this?


Gear: Hasselblad H4D-31, HC 35 3.2, HC 80 2.8 HC 150 3.2, 5D mkIII, 1Ds mkI, rebuilding glass collection for DSLR, Elinchrom Quadra Hybrid with A heads, 3x Bowens Gemini 750 Pro with accessories.....

  
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gonzogolf
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Dec 22, 2011 16:13 |  #2

By medium format do you mean a larger sensor? This would likely require an entirely new lens lineup to accomodate a larger image circle. Or do you just mean packing more megapixels onto the same "full frame" sensor? Either way, not sure canon wants to compete with hassy in a new form factor.




  
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krb
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Dec 22, 2011 16:14 |  #3

Pixel Boy wrote in post #13586395 (external link)
Many togs have stuck with there 1DS mkIII or 5D mkII for higher quality images and better print quality.

Stuck with them? As opposed to what exactly?


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Pixel ­ Boy
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Dec 22, 2011 16:31 |  #4

Sensor size I'm referring, I understand that a new glass line up would be needed but it would be worth it. Ok Hassy is probably way out there but the Pentax isn't. Was referring to the Hassy and Pentax due to almost the same price.

Krb, stuck as in they have been waiting for the no show 1DS mkIIII with all of it's rumoured applications and performance, then been given a down grade in resolution and print quality...


Gear: Hasselblad H4D-31, HC 35 3.2, HC 80 2.8 HC 150 3.2, 5D mkIII, 1Ds mkI, rebuilding glass collection for DSLR, Elinchrom Quadra Hybrid with A heads, 3x Bowens Gemini 750 Pro with accessories.....

  
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gonzogolf
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Dec 22, 2011 16:35 |  #5

I doubt canon wants to jump in to a relatively small, even though its elite, competitive marketplace. The R&D costs would be enormous and the recovery rate pretty low because of the few units they would sell. Part of what makes the current system affordable is for every 1 series they sell, a few hundred rebels prop up the profit margin.




  
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tkbslc
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Dec 22, 2011 17:04 |  #6

We haven't seen anything from the 1Dx, so how can you call it a downgrade in print quality? You can't judge anything by megapixels alone.


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Bendel
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Dec 22, 2011 17:10 |  #7

Haven't most of the complaints been from sports photographers because of the loss of the 1.3 crop? I don't see how portrait/fashion/glamo​ur/wedding photographers are missing out...You're not printing billboards, is 18mp really an issue for you?

Wait, just realized your name was "Pixel Boy"...I guess that is an issue for you.


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sandpiper
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Dec 22, 2011 17:34 |  #8

Pixel Boy wrote in post #13586519 (external link)
Sensor size I'm referring, I understand that a new glass line up would be needed but it would be worth it. Ok Hassy is probably way out there but the Pentax isn't. Was referring to the Hassy and Pentax due to almost the same price.

I can't see how it would be worth it for Canon to design an entire new body and lens lineup, to compete in a limited market against a bunch of players who have been building MF cameras for decades. Canon would very much be the new kid on the block in that field and, unless they introduced a really good selection of lenses with the system launch, would be a poor choice for most people as they wouldn't have the system options that the others have.

You must consider that Canon's R&D department isn't sitting around twiddling it's collective thumbs waiting for something to design. They are pretty busy designing future EF/EF-S lenses and the next generation of p&s and DSLR camera bodies. If they were suddenly told to design a complete MF system, then work on the current EF/EF-S lens and body replacements would be held up dramatically. Yes, they can take on more designers, but the numbers of potential recruits with suitable experience in this specialised field is unlikely to be high enough to make a big increase.

So, Canon starts work on an all-new MF system, the upcoming p&s and DSLR designs mostly get put on the back burner and we see little new for any format coming out of Canon for the forseeable future. That would be a disaster for the company as Nikon would still be forging ahead with their development and would likely pull out a significant technological lead in the market, causing Canon to lose ground, and sales, in it's key market places.

I really cannot see where there is any benefit to Canon.

Can I ask, why are you wanting them to do it? I can understand when a Canon DSLR user wishes them to make a new DSLR, that does what they want out of a camera. They have an investment in a system, with multiple lenses etc. and don't want to have to start again. But, even if Canon were to introduce a MF system, there would be no compatibility with your current Canon gear (OK, maybe speedlights would be compatible). You would effectively have to start over, so why not just buy into Hasselblad, Mamiya. Pentax or whatever? You would be buying into a full system that has evolved over decades, rather than being a 'first attempt' with minimal range of lenses and accessories available. If I was in the market for a MF system and Canon had just introduced one, I would certainly look at it but I suspect that I would then go with a company with some MF pedigree behind them.

I, for one, would much rather Canon kept their energies focused on the current markets they are in, rather than trying to break into MF.




  
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krb
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Dec 22, 2011 18:01 |  #9

Pixel Boy wrote in post #13586519 (external link)
Krb, stuck as in they have been waiting for the no show 1DS mkIIII with all of it's rumoured applications and performance, then been given a down grade in resolution and print quality...

The 1DX is a very small downgrade in the quantity of pixels compared to the older cameras. Any thing beyond that is just making guesses.

As I said in another recent thread, the 1Ds series simply has no place in the current market, IMO.


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Pixel ­ Boy
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Dec 22, 2011 18:42 |  #10

sandpiper wrote in post #13586797 (external link)
I can't see how it would be worth it for Canon to design an entire new body and lens lineup, to compete in a limited market against a bunch of players who have been building MF cameras for decades. Canon would very much be the new kid on the block in that field and, unless they introduced a really good selection of lenses with the system launch, would be a poor choice for most people as they wouldn't have the system options that the others have.

You must consider that Canon's R&D department isn't sitting around twiddling it's collective thumbs waiting for something to design. They are pretty busy designing future EF/EF-S lenses and the next generation of p&s and DSLR camera bodies. If they were suddenly told to design a complete MF system, then work on the current EF/EF-S lens and body replacements would be held up dramatically. Yes, they can take on more designers, but the numbers of potential recruits with suitable experience in this specialised field is unlikely to be high enough to make a big increase.

So, Canon starts work on an all-new MF system, the upcoming p&s and DSLR designs mostly get put on the back burner and we see little new for any format coming out of Canon for the forseeable future. That would be a disaster for the company as Nikon would still be forging ahead with their development and would likely pull out a significant technological lead in the market, causing Canon to lose ground, and sales, in it's key market places.

I really cannot see where there is any benefit to Canon.

Can I ask, why are you wanting them to do it? I can understand when a Canon DSLR user wishes them to make a new DSLR, that does what they want out of a camera. They have an investment in a system, with multiple lenses etc. and don't want to have to start again. But, even if Canon were to introduce a MF system, there would be no compatibility with your current Canon gear (OK, maybe speedlights would be compatible). You would effectively have to start over, so why not just buy into Hasselblad, Mamiya. Pentax or whatever? You would be buying into a full system that has evolved over decades, rather than being a 'first attempt' with minimal range of lenses and accessories available. If I was in the market for a MF system and Canon had just introduced one, I would certainly look at it but I suspect that I would then go with a company with some MF pedigree behind them.

I, for one, would much rather Canon kept their energies focused on the current markets they are in, rather than trying to break into MF.

When did I say they where sitting around twiddling there thumbs?

After your finished with your rant about other gear like lighting, my current gear that would work with MF systems like my 3 750 bowens pro's with all the trimmings and my 1000 square foot studio with all the trimmings in Kent and why are you bringing other gear into it? Jesus chill out...

You could simply say No I don't think they would consider a MF system instead of bitting my head off! Plus on top of that Canon make many different products what makes you think they would put that certain team on the case? Stupid comment... They make Printers, Calculators, many other electrical devices im pretty sure that that one department doesn't look after any of those electrical's they would surely employ a separate department that would work with or separately....

Was only asking as im not impressed with the 1DX and ithought I would start a topic with some people on here....


Gear: Hasselblad H4D-31, HC 35 3.2, HC 80 2.8 HC 150 3.2, 5D mkIII, 1Ds mkI, rebuilding glass collection for DSLR, Elinchrom Quadra Hybrid with A heads, 3x Bowens Gemini 750 Pro with accessories.....

  
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Pixel ­ Boy
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Dec 22, 2011 18:43 |  #11

krb wrote in post #13586891 (external link)
The 1DX is a very small downgrade in the quantity of pixels compared to the older cameras. Any thing beyond that is just making guesses.

As I said in another recent thread, the 1Ds series simply has no place in the current market, IMO.

Still a down grade... Which is what I have been saying....


Gear: Hasselblad H4D-31, HC 35 3.2, HC 80 2.8 HC 150 3.2, 5D mkIII, 1Ds mkI, rebuilding glass collection for DSLR, Elinchrom Quadra Hybrid with A heads, 3x Bowens Gemini 750 Pro with accessories.....

  
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Pixel ­ Boy
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Dec 22, 2011 18:49 |  #12

Bendel wrote in post #13586709 (external link)
Haven't most of the complaints been from sports photographers because of the loss of the 1.3 crop? I don't see how portrait/fashion/glamo​ur/wedding photographers are missing out...You're not printing billboards, is 18mp really an issue for you?

Wait, just realized your name was "Pixel Boy"...I guess that is an issue for you.

Lol finally a light harted comment, true im not doing any billboard sized prints but some of my clients do ask for prints up to 1.5M H X 2.5M L thats one of the reasons I asked.

But the main reason I ask was out of interest, judging by most of the comments I guess the answer is no they would not do a MF system.... LOL ;)


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Pixel ­ Boy
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Dec 22, 2011 19:01 |  #13

gonzogolf wrote in post #13586542 (external link)
I doubt canon wants to jump in to a relatively small, even though its elite, competitive marketplace. The R&D costs would be enormous and the recovery rate pretty low because of the few units they would sell. Part of what makes the current system affordable is for every 1 series they sell, a few hundred rebels prop up the profit margin.

;) surely there is a small market for this sort of camera though as alot of MF developers are coming out with models to bridge over to the more expensive models like the H4D 31 and the 645D Pentax.


Gear: Hasselblad H4D-31, HC 35 3.2, HC 80 2.8 HC 150 3.2, 5D mkIII, 1Ds mkI, rebuilding glass collection for DSLR, Elinchrom Quadra Hybrid with A heads, 3x Bowens Gemini 750 Pro with accessories.....

  
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sandpiper
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Dec 22, 2011 19:25 |  #14

Pixel Boy wrote in post #13587021 (external link)
When did I say they where sitting around twiddling there thumbs?

You didn't. When did I say that you did?

Pixel Boy wrote in post #13587021 (external link)
After your finished with your rant about other gear like lighting, my current gear that would work with MF systems like my 3 750 bowens pro's with all the trimmings and my 1000 square foot studio with all the trimmings in Kent and why are you bringing other gear into it?

I wasn't ranting, I didn't even mention lighting apart from a vague aside that Canon speedlights might be compatible with a new system. As for other gear, I was just mentioning that as your current Canon gear would not be usable with a new MF system, you could simply buy a system that is currently available (such as the Hassy or Pentax that you had already mentioned). Of course your studio gear would be compatible with a Canon MF system, but they are compatible with any system that works with studiom lights. Like I say, though, I never even mentioned lighting as it isn't relevant to the discussion, you brought that into it. The only gear I brought into the discussion that you didn't, was when I added the name "Mamiya" to the Hassy and Pentax you already brought up.

Pixel Boy wrote in post #13587021 (external link)
You could simply say No I don't think they would consider a MF system instead of bitting my head off!

Yes, I could simply say that. But, "No I don't think they would consider a MF system" doesn't really add anything to the discussion. You seemed to be after opinions as to whether it was time for a MF Canon system to be introduced. I gave my opinion and followed that up with my reasoning as to why that was my opinion.

I wasn't in any way biting your head off, or having a go at you. the only part of my reply that was aimed at you was where I asked why you wanted a Canon MF system specifically. I was interested in what you didn't like about the current MF offerings that you thought Canon would rectify. I got that you were unimpressed with the 1Dx, but you could upgrade to any MF system and I was interested as to why you wanted one that doesn't yet exist, rather than one of the existing ones. As I say, not having a go, just interested in your reason for wanting a Canon rather than a Hasselblad etc.

Pixel Boy wrote in post #13587021 (external link)
Was only asking as im not impressed with the 1DX and ithought I would start a topic with some people on here....

That's exactly what I thought. But, when you start a discussion topic people are going to give you their thoughts and opinions (if they don't, it's not much of a discussion). Not everybody will agree with your thoughts, but that does not make either party right or wrong, we all have a right to our opinions. I respect your opinion, just because mine is different does not make it a rant, nor does it make it a personal attack.

I apologise for giving my opinion and thoughts, but I was attempting to answer your question, as I saw it. If you simply want people to give "yes" or "no" answers, without their reasons or opinions, can I suggest that you start a poll, rather than a discussion thread.

I apologise if you read something into my reply that wasn't intended. I wasn't ranting, I wasn't having a go and (above all) I never intended to offend you.

I will avoid giving my opinions on any questions you ask in future, as I don't want to cause offense.




  
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gonzogolf
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Dec 22, 2011 19:34 |  #15

Pixel Boy wrote in post #13587108 (external link)
;) surely there is a small market for this sort of camera though as alot of MF developers are coming out with models to bridge over to the more expensive models like the H4D 31 and the 645D Pentax.

Perhaps there is a small market, but canon doesnt do small markets, especially when they are decades behind the current MF players.




  
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