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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Glamour & Nude Talk 
Thread started 02 Jan 2012 (Monday) 02:44
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Pirating . . .

 
BayAreaPhotog
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Jan 02, 2012 02:44 |  #1

I recently asked if anybody knew about Jason Cole's 2nd Glamour DVD and I was told that you isn't producing one. Why? Because too many people pirated copies so it was not worth it for him to try and
produce another . . . Folks, buying a copy that clearly states that it is for your private use and cannot be resold . . . IS pirating. . . The artist, Jason Cole is losing money. . . This situation could easily be anyone of us members on this forum . . . I hope that as a photographer, you consider yourself an artist and want to protect your work?

I went to the "Buy" forum and found about 65 members that participated in either trying to sell or buy a previously purchased copy of the DVD . . . Somebody even uploaded a copy (many copies) to the internet . . .

The really sad part here, is that there probably isn't a more generous member in the Glamour and Nude section than Jason Cole. He has shared his work and his knowledge with anybody who was interested. Whether it was private or in the public forum, Jason was and is still very accomidating with his knowledge and time . . . And, no, I am not affliated with Jason or the DVD . . . I am just a member who bought a copy from Jason and has kept it . . . and is now really pissed off after hearing this. This may be old news, but everytime that somebody resells it or downloads it, Jason is losing money.

So, I am currious to hear the thoughts and comments from other members here on Pirating and of course Jason's situation . . . I'd especially like to hear from those members who participated in pirating his DVD.
You took money out of another members pocket just to save a few bucks . . .

Bayareaphotog




  
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Thorrulz
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Jan 02, 2012 08:48 |  #2

My two cents on this and I am surprised I actually have that much left to my name after the Holidays.

Did you report these said offenders to the Mods here?

Also you appear to be saying since Gamestop sells used games and Blockbuster Video sells both used movies and games they are both pirating?
I like Jason Cole's work, but in all seriousness if I buy a video of of Zach Arias, Jason Cole's or anyone else I can sell it as long as I don't make any unauthorized copies.

I would suggest you contact those two rather large businesses and inquire as how they are allowed to sell something that cleary states that it is for your private use and cannot be resold.

I am a photographer and I own my business which happens to be photography related. A training video is no different than any other tool I own at the moment. Whether it's a camera, lens, tripod, strobes or any other accessory I use if I find there is no more use for it I sell it to a individual who hopefully can find a use for said piece of equipment.

I don't personally believe any of the other individuals that are selling their dvd's they purchased from Jason are trying to steal from him.
Remember - Pirating is making illegal copies and illegally distributing them and you nor I don't have a shred of evidence that any of those members are actually engaging in that practice.

Those are my thoughts and views on the subject and I wouldn't mind hearing others opinions as well on the subject.


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mega
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Jan 02, 2012 15:41 |  #3

Reselling a copyrighted good that was legally purchased is absolutely legal in the US. See: first-sale doctrine.

http://en.wikipedia.or​g …DVDs_and_NEBG_v​_Weinstein (external link)




  
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Thorrulz
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Jan 02, 2012 15:46 |  #4

mega wrote in post #13635268 (external link)
Reselling a copyrighted good that was legally purchased is absolutely legal in the US. See: first-sale doctrine.

http://en.wikipedia.or​g …DVDs_and_NEBG_v​_Weinstein (external link)

You sure could have saved me alot of typing on my cellphone if you had posted several hours ago.;)


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D800 I Nikon 200 f2 VR 1 I Nikon 200 f2 ED AI-S I Nikon 135 f2 DC I Nikon 28-70 f/2.8 I Nikon 50 f/1.4G I Nikon 85 f/1.8G I Pentax 645D I SMC FA 645 75 F2.8 I SMC FA 645 45-85 F4.5 I SMC FA 645 200 F4
My sister, the professional baker and cake decorator once told me that my camera takes great pics. My reply was that I thought her oven baked great cakes.:lol:

  
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mega
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Jan 02, 2012 15:55 |  #5

Thorrulz wrote in post #13635294 (external link)
You sure could have saved me alot of typing on my cellphone if you had posted several hours ago.;)

I hope you didn't have to use T9 :lol:




  
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Bob_A
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Jan 02, 2012 16:11 |  #6

I think what happened to Jason is terrible and I always find it hard to understand why some people feel zero guilt when they steal someones intellectual property.

I wonder if a better model for these kind of instructional videos would be to shoot them for a site like Lynda.com. Lynda has a lot of instructional videos for photography, not all related to software.


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BayAreaPhotog
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Jan 02, 2012 18:14 |  #7

Thanks. I stand corrected on the resell. But, it does not allow you to upload a copy to the internet and others to download that copy for free . . . which is being done. . .

I guess the other issue here is a moral issue. . . we seem to have a society who think that just because we have the technology to get something for free, then we have that right. . . You don't. If Jason or any artist wants to put it on the internet for freeware use, that's okay . . . but Jason didn't. . . For god sake guys, support your fellow member here and one who has shared his vast knowledge for free - isn't that enough reason to not resell his stuff at a discount . . . because of this, he isn't producing any more.
Hope you'er happy. . . I am certainly not. . .

mega wrote in post #13635268 (external link)
Reselling a copyrighted good that was legally purchased is absolutely legal in the US. See: first-sale doctrine.

http://en.wikipedia.or​g …DVDs_and_NEBG_v​_Weinstein (external link)




  
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Ledrak
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Jan 02, 2012 18:49 |  #8

BayAreaPhotog wrote in post #13636010 (external link)
Thanks. I stand corrected on the resell. But, it does not allow you to upload a copy to the internet and others to download that copy for free . . . which is being done. . .

I guess the other issue here is a moral issue. . . we seem to have a society who think that just because we have the technology to get something for free, then we have that right. . . You don't. If Jason or any artist wants to put it on the internet for freeware use, that's okay . . . but Jason didn't. . . For god sake guys, support your fellow member here and one who has shared his vast knowledge for free - isn't that enough reason to not resell his stuff at a discount . . . because of this, he isn't producing any more.
Hope you'er happy. . . I am certainly not. . .

You're not going to put a stop to technology. Piracy can be a dreadful problem but it's not going anywhere. And it's not just happening to one poor photographer, look at what it's done to the entire music industry. Don't even get me started on the porn industry.

As content owners we can try and reduce or limit piracy by taking measures like using DRM protection, etc. But I don't ever see it being completely stopped. I'm not condoning the pirates, just telling it like it is.




  
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mega
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Jan 02, 2012 18:51 |  #9

Of course ripping and uploading a DVD is illegal - it is obvious copyright infringement (not theft).

But to say that reselling a used DVD is also wrong is a bit tough to understand - books predate DVDs by several thousand years, and I am quite sure it is well established that reselling books is OK.

If Jason feels that way, then perhaps he should stick to things like live workshops. You cannot stop digital copyright infringement.




  
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deadpass
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Jan 04, 2012 00:02 |  #10

BayAreaPhotog wrote in post #13632613 (external link)
produce another . . . Folks, buying a copy that clearly states that it is for your private use and cannot be resold . . . IS pirating. . . The artist, Jason Cole is losing money. . . This situation could easily be anyone of us members on this forum . . . I hope that as a photographer, you consider yourself an artist and want to protect your work?

No, no he is not. He may not be making as much money but he is not losing any. You assume that someone that pirates something would buy it if the ability to pirate was not an option, which is not correct.

People are perfectly willing to spend money on things they deem reasonably priced, look at Louis C.K.'s comedy special that he sold for 5 bucks and has a million dollars in sales already.

If people are pirating it, then they either don't deem it worth the price or can't afford it. Is that ok? depends who you ask. But it is what it is and it isn't him losing money.


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hawk911
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Jan 04, 2012 12:12 |  #11

just cuz I'm in that kind of mood... but if Jason sold 5 copies at $50 each, but at a cost of $5000 to make the video. 1 person put on somewhere for others to download at will, and 5000 people did such a download, he lost money. If he had priced it at $25, would those same 5000 people then decide to buy it? we'll just never know because saying you will do something and ACTUALLY doing it are not always the same.


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Jason ­ Cole
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Jan 05, 2012 03:08 |  #12

Just to clarify some points:

When I said that I was disappointed that people had resold my DVD, what I meant was that it was only $69 + shipping, so a good price, it took 50K+ to fund and six months to make, people learned as much as they could from the DVD, then sold it. My issue is they should keep it, as they have value from the DVD and for a small amount of money, they well and truly got their $69 worth, without having to resell the DVD to make back maybe $50, BUT also take away another sale from DVD1, which takes away profit from DVD 1 that was destined to go into DVD2. We had a working timeline and production, it was called "Mastering Light" and it was a much more advanced DVD, that was the plan....

Remember I have eben shooting for magazines and models for 13 years now, I know a lot of tricks and have learned from the best photographers...

With the pirating of DVD1, that crushed me when i saw my hard earned work all over bittorent. How dare someone do that! They did not spend the countless hours editing and the tens of thousands of dollars I did (personally) to produce this DVD. I "almost" broke even, and thats just costs, that does not include my countless time and expertise.... time I could have been putting into other things if not for my passion for teaching.

This was NEVER about me making squillions, I already have a VERY successful business, it was always about teaching people, which is a deep and passionate need of mine as an artist and as a member of the photography community. ALL (and I do mean ALL) the profit from DVD1 was destined for a bigger and better DVD2, which would have lead to DVD3 and so on.......

Now I KNOW my last point is a TOUCHY one and no doubt the mods will either delete me or I will get the usual nasty email, but even though its against forum rules to promote the DVD here, it OFFENDS me when people have a go at me, for supposedly "plugging" my DVD that was funding DVD2 to help ALL the people that would have brought it. You don't see 99% of those people bagging me getting off their arse and making an instructional DVD or putting their OWN money into a project like this, but I would put my nuts on it that some of them have downloaded my DVD from pirate sites and learned from it too....

How is THAT for the ultimate insult....

One torrent site that I saw had 1624 downloads of my DVD... 1624....

Piracy really DOES effect everyone.... even more so when the victim is a small business like mine, I'm not a multinational company, I'm a small business with a passion for teaching, nothing more.... my 20c


Cheers, Jason Cole
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Jason ­ Cole
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Jan 05, 2012 03:09 |  #13

One other point, the coat of the DVD is irrelevant, if a person can download it for free rather than pay $10 for it, they will, hence proven by Bittorent... its the nature of humans. We all like to say we wouldn't but we all like stuff for free....


Cheers, Jason Cole
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Canon EOS 1DS MK III, L Series lenses, Broncolour Studio

  
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saturnin
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Jan 05, 2012 03:19 |  #14
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i am a filmmaker.. and my films got pirated... its part of doing business, sorry to say! I factor in all the ppl who dloaded my movies for free and i use it as promotional tools. As long as it gets out there that's all that matters to me. I've lost thousands of $$, yah it sucks. I still manage to make my money back to do it again.

Also - to be honest. It doesnt matter that it took someone 6 months or 2 years to make a film/music cd. IT is irrelevant. It takes me about 2 years to film/edit/do the art/dvd menus, all of it,all by myself. I've been doing it since 2003 - i have 3 docs under my belt. No one cares that maybe my camer broke down and i had to spend another 5 grand for a new one or that i ran out of money traveling in EUROPE. All those costs and the editing and all of it, doesnt matter to someone who's buying the product. What matters is that they get it at good price and the product is ready to ship on time.

sure it hurts that ppl copy it for free, it is something that as a artist, we need to get over it and find new ways of delivering the product to customers.

also the business model is changing fast - ppl dont want to pay 69 for a speciality DVD/BLUE RAY - those days are done.

i've had to lower the price of my films every year so more ppl would buy them - and it works.

i rather sell 1000 units for 15 dollars, then 100 units for 69 bucks - this shouldnt be anything new to people who are in business. Look at stupid angry birds on the iphone - 99 cents. They sell a million trillion units... WIN WIN.


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Jason ­ Cole
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Jan 05, 2012 03:28 |  #15

Whats the new model Saturnin? Im interested to learn here....

And many people will ALWAYS take for free, its the nature of humanity unfortunately...


Cheers, Jason Cole
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