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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 02 Jan 2012 (Monday) 19:12
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Photographer or Artist?

 
Denny ­ G
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Jan 03, 2012 08:33 as a reply to  @ post 13638311 |  #16

I consider myself a photographer, nothing more. If my photographs differ from that which is usually done in this field, it is precisely because I try to produce not art but honest photographs, without distortions or manipulations. The majority of photographers still seek "artistic" effects, imitating other mediums of graphic expression. The result is a hybrid product that does not succeed in giving their work the most valuable characteristic it should have, - photographic quality.

Tina Modotti - December 1929




  
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RDKirk
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Jan 03, 2012 08:53 |  #17

Denny G wrote in post #13638686 (external link)
I consider myself a photographer, nothing more. If my photographs differ from that which is usually done in this field, it is precisely because I try to produce not art but honest photographs, without distortions or manipulations. The majority of photographers still seek "artistic" effects, imitating other mediums of graphic expression. The result is a hybrid product that does not succeed in giving their work the most valuable characteristic it should have, - photographic quality.

Tina Modotti - December 1929

Not by my definition. Her later work was politically propagandistic, and while it would suit the purposes of propaganda to label them "honest photographs," it's not necessarily so.

It's very convenient to define "art" so narrowly as "distortions and manipulations," but the degree to which the photographer determines the framing and the moment of exposure most definitely introduces a deliberate element of artistic control.


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sjones
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Jan 03, 2012 08:58 |  #18

Denny G wrote in post #13638686 (external link)
I consider myself a photographer, nothing more. If my photographs differ from that which is usually done in this field, it is precisely because I try to produce not art but honest photographs, without distortions or manipulations. The majority of photographers still seek "artistic" effects, imitating other mediums of graphic expression. The result is a hybrid product that does not succeed in giving their work the most valuable characteristic it should have, - photographic quality.

Tina Modotti - December 1929

For a photograph to be art does not require any notable divergence from "photographic reality," and I think it is interesting that when "art" is broached on this site in particular, it frequently evokes pejorative notions of heavily manipulated images or pretentious excuses for subpar photography. Even the late Tina should recognize that composition is an artistic element, if not an effect, per se.


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dannequin
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Jan 03, 2012 09:10 |  #19

A photographer can also be an artist for the vision he or she sees in their head and how it's to be captured.


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Jan 03, 2012 09:19 |  #20

There have been some very interesting discussions here in the past on this topic..........wish I could find my old links to them.

But here's a trick question I'll toss out to you all: if your work is exhibited in a museum, does that action in an of itself put the general brand of "art" on the piece(s), or is it simply the judge or curator validating the photographer's creative effort in trying to come up with something new and/or unique?

I realize that hanging in a museum doesn't automatically mean a piece is good due the subjective nature of art as well as other intangible and technical factors. But the fact remains that credentialled people accepted the work into that area. This means something.


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Jan 03, 2012 09:30 as a reply to  @ sapearl's post |  #21

"The creative force in man recognizes and records these rhythms with the medium most suitable to him, the object, or the moment, feeling the cause, the life within the outer form. Recording unfelt facts, acquired by rule, results in sterile inventory. To see the Thing Itself is essential: the quintessence revealed direct without the fog of impressionism - the casual noting of the superficial phase, a transitory mood." - Edward Weston




  
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Denny ­ G
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Jan 03, 2012 09:31 as a reply to  @ dannequin's post |  #22

Modotti 1929 and the discussions continue. My point only.

One question. Was Robert Mapplethorpe an artist?




  
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airfrogusmc
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Jan 03, 2012 09:37 |  #23

Denny G wrote in post #13638919 (external link)
Modotti 1929 and the discussions continue. My point only.

One question. Was Robert Mapplethorpe an artist?

Yes!!!!

"A great photograph is a full expression of what one feels about what is being photographed in the deepest sense, and is, a true expression of what one feels about life in its entirety." - Ansel Adams


"To photograph truthfully and effectively is to see beneath the surfaces and record the qualities of nature and humanity which live or are latent in all things. Impression is not enough. Design, style, technique, - these, too, are not enough. Art must reach further than impression or self-revelation. Art, said Alfred Stieglitz, is the affirmation of life. And life, or its eternal evidence is everywhere. Some photographers take reality as the sculptors take wood and stone and upon it impose the dominations of their own thought and spirit. Others come before reality more tenderly and a photograph to them is an instrument of love and elevation." -Ansel Adams




  
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sjones
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Jan 03, 2012 09:54 |  #24

Denny G wrote in post #13638919 (external link)
Modotti 1929 and the discussions continue. My point only.

One question. Was Robert Mapplethorpe an artist?

Well yes, this discussion is interminably persistent, dating back to photography's very inception.

And yes, I would consider Mapplethorpe an artist.


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Shadow ­ on ­ the ­ Door
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Jan 03, 2012 09:59 |  #25
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Posting quotes from other people about art doesn't make it the definition, anything that you imagine and turn into reality is art in someone's eyes.


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airfrogusmc
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Jan 03, 2012 10:03 |  #26

Shadow on the Door wrote in post #13639072 (external link)
Posting quotes from other people about art doesn't make it the definition, anything that you imagine and turn into reality is art in someone's eyes.

It can help us understand and learn especially if they were able to make it as artists and they certainly have more credibility and rightful so that monkey boy Allen on POTN. :lol:

Why wouldn't you want to know what some of the greats had to say about the subject?




  
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Shadow ­ on ­ the ­ Door
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Jan 03, 2012 10:06 |  #27
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Because it doesn't matter who said it, art is personal and subjective.


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rhommel
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Jan 03, 2012 10:09 |  #28

i am a photographer... that is all. I love it though that some people (clients) call me an artist. :)


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airfrogusmc
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Jan 03, 2012 10:11 |  #29

Shadow on the Door wrote in post #13639119 (external link)
Because it doesn't matter who said it, art is personal and subjective.

And again you would be wrong. Most think art is subjective but its not as suggestive as most think.

Heres read this.
This was taken from the bottom of the first page of the link at the bottom and I think this is SO IMPORTANT when trying to judge what is good or what isn't.
"The important point to remember is that we should all feel free to like or dislike what we will, on grounds of personal taste. HOWEVER, please note that there is a distinction between personal taste or preference and objective judgements of success or failure in a work of design or art. It is possible to recognize that a work is successful and significant, even though it does not suit our personal taste. It should be clear that unless one can lay claim to a high level of expertise it is rather immoderate to condemn a work as "bad" just because one doesn't like it. It is important for an artist to understand this distinction, and even more so for a designer, who will surely be called upon to do creative work in a framework of someone else's tastes and ideas.

It is possible to learn how these objective judgements are made. There are objective criteria by which we can determine whether or not a work is successful ("good")."

Heres the link thats from.
http://char.txa.cornel​l.edu/language/introla​n.htm (external link)

And all of this language can all be supporting the visual statement and still it can fail as art because in most art you can see a little of the hand of the artist too. Without the artist there is no art.




  
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Jan 03, 2012 10:16 as a reply to  @ Shadow on the Door's post |  #30

I think the thing that really frustrates me about this topic is where our professional organizations and other photographers are taking photography.

WE ALL KNOW WHAT COMES OFF A CAMERA

In the film days it was all about proper lighting and posing, getting it right in the camera and being creative with the scenes,clothing and trend styles. You ahd to know and understand light.

Digital photography.

The artist is defined by how creative they get in photoshop. I look at whats winning the awards and high scores at our professional print competitions and its now the exact opposite from the film days. Proper lighting, getting it right in the camera,posing,,is secondary to how creative a person is with photoshop. while lighting gets you into the ballpark, you have no chance unless you have great photoshop skills and the ability to manipulate an image to the look they are now teaching....sad really

Look at the high scoring images and you see skin that is over processed, coral painting, graphic art work and enhanced lighting via photoshop v/s what you do with your strobes. The trend now is to appeal to those that want this look and disregard where our roots came from in the first place.

Its less and less about photography and more and more about photoshop and graphic art. Primarily why i don't enter print competitions and participate in the PPA and WPPi for these types on things.....its not about photography any longer,,,,,,,,its all about graphic art..........that's not what photography is to me.


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