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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 03 Jan 2012 (Tuesday) 21:28
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The frustrations of photography!!

 
Daship
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Jan 04, 2012 10:25 |  #16

I looked at their portfolio and is sucks. I did see any pro quality photos, mostly crooked snaps.




  
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memoriesoftomorrow
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Jan 04, 2012 10:28 |  #17

You lost a price shopper... in fact correct that, you didn't lose them as they had never booked in the first place. I lost a winning lottery ticket last week... well I would have lost it if perhaps I had bought it in the first place... crude analogy but apt.

If you operate in the end of the market when people purchase by price as opposed to other factors then this is the reality you will have to face. If people are going to not book you based on price then to those people your work isn't worth what you are charging for it. If this happens continually chances are the value you have placed on your work is not consistent with market forces and the market's appraisal of your work.


Peter

  
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golfecho
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Jan 04, 2012 10:29 |  #18

Nightstalker wrote in post #13645045 (external link)
The OP works in the same way as Kreativ Imaging in that he supplies proof images and then lets them buy prints . . .

The OP could be more expensive wrt the upfront commitment and MAY also be more expensive for prints . . .

Reminds me of another business model that has been very successful . . . printers are dirt cheap, but the cost of ink later on will kill you . . .


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Bosscat
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Jan 04, 2012 10:49 |  #19

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #13645118 (external link)
You lost a price shopper... in fact correct that, you didn't lose them as they had never booked in the first place. I lost a winning lottery ticket last week... well I would have lost it if perhaps I had bought it in the first place... crude analogy but apt.

If you operate in the end of the market when people purchase by price as opposed to other factors then this is the reality you will have to face. If people are going to not book you based on price then to those people your work isn't worth what you are charging for it. If this happens continually chances are the value you have placed on your work is not consistent with market forces and the market's appraisal of your work.

Dude, thats most people these days. They see the price of a print available at Wal-Mart and therefore see that as the price the photographer should charge.

There are a couple of dirt track shooters around my area that dump images onto a CD of a driver and they sell them for $40-$50 bucks and people will snap up a CD with 30-60 average images for that price then one killer 11x14 from myself.

The vast majority of people shop on proce, for if they didn't, the rise of Wal-Mart never would have occurred.


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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memoriesoftomorrow
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Jan 04, 2012 11:06 |  #20

Bosscat wrote in post #13645240 (external link)
Dude, thats most people these days. They see the price of a print available at Wal-Mart and therefore see that as the price the photographer should charge.

Depends which end of the market you operate in with wedding photography. If you are going to operate in the bottom end of things i.e. against craigslist/groupon shooters then realistically I wouldn't expect to make any money doing so. When you are competing on price alone there will always be someone cheaper than you.

Some forms of photography and delivery methods as viable business propositions will disappear... nature of the beast. No amount of complaining by anyone will change that.


Peter

  
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joeblack2022
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Jan 04, 2012 11:17 |  #21

I don't think anyone is on Groupon to actually make money, it's primarily to get your business out there and raise awareness. However, there are dangers in using its business model...

http://articles.busine​ssinsider.com …ns-andrew-mason-merchants (external link)

http://abcnews.go.com …?id=14538694#.T​wSJzl3nPDM (external link)

OP I understand your frustration but at the end of the day you're not the biggest loser (and as others said, you really didn't lose anything) in this deal.


Joel

  
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PhotosGuy
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Jan 04, 2012 12:15 |  #22

joeblack2022 wrote in post #13645358 (external link)
I don't think anyone is on Groupon to actually make money, it's primarily to get your business out there and raise awareness. However, there are dangers in using its business model...

http://articles.busine​ssinsider.com …ns-andrew-mason-merchants (external link)

http://abcnews.go.com …?id=14538694#.T​wSJzl3nPDM (external link)

OP I understand your frustration but at the end of the day you're not the biggest loser (and as others said, you really didn't lose anything) in this deal.

I don't see that as a business model problem. She didn't do the math or research, didn't listen to her husband, ignored the little voice in her head, & went ahead anyway?
Groupon is just another tool & if you lose your fingers, maybe it was operator error as in this case.


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Bosscat
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Jan 04, 2012 12:36 |  #23

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #13645308 (external link)
Depends which end of the market you operate in with wedding photography. If you are going to operate in the bottom end of things i.e. against craigslist/groupon shooters then realistically I wouldn't expect to make any money doing so. When you are competing on price alone there will always be someone cheaper than you.

Some forms of photography and delivery methods as viable business propositions will disappear... nature of the beast. No amount of complaining by anyone will change that.

In the mind of most clients, all 8x10s are printed equal – but we know that couldn’t be more wrong. It’s what is printed on the paper that’s critical, not the print itself.

But how many people really know a average photo from a stunning photo?

I have watched people pay money for pictures of their kids, with tilted horizons and port-a-poos in the background, just because it was their kid.


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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Bananapie
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Jan 04, 2012 12:48 |  #24

canonguy14 wrote in post #13642650 (external link)
How does anyone stand to make any type of profit with this type of business model?


As someone who has always worked for himself (or been an original member in startups) I can say that in my experience this kinda thing is not industry exclusive. ;)

It might seem (particularly from the perspective of the people on these forums) that photographers have an extra hard time maintaining profits in light of consumer technology and literally insane competition, but trust me when I say people are crazy no matter what field you are competing in. :D

It is frustrating, but you need to learn what your competitive advantage is, and exploit it. No one is going to be able to you what it is _you_ can offer which will net you business...pricing penetration is something that probably will never work for you or most photographers.




  
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cabinajm
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Jan 04, 2012 14:08 |  #25

Makes me glad I have a day job...


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cdifoto
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Jan 04, 2012 18:28 |  #26

canonguy14 wrote in post #13644347 (external link)
When I first talked to the client about shooting her wedding, we went over budget and their expectations on what they wanted out of the package. She was absolutely 100% satisfied with what I was offering and ready to get the ball rolling.

I can say that I close the deal 100% because the contract never made it back to my office, but it was in her hands literally ready to come back to me the next morning when she saw this.

I get the fact that they get low res files and nothing else. They're 100% banking that their profit will come from print sales. The other side of the coin is that they will have to edit all proofs going online for order.

This is where I get a little frustrated. The $200 the photographer made on a wedding is gonna get thin real fast once the wedding day is done, photos are organized and final proofs are up.

Once again you're worried about the other guy and not looking inward. Don't expect others to charge more so you can too. Sell something brides cannot do without and feel they can only get from you.


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tomcat7886
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Jan 04, 2012 21:02 |  #27

He's probably just started and want to build up on portfolio.


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kenwood33
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Jan 04, 2012 21:17 |  #28

how can the seller honor this deal?


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canonguy14
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Jan 04, 2012 21:50 |  #29

cdifoto wrote in post #13647526 (external link)
Once again you're worried about the other guy and not looking inward. Don't expect others to charge more so you can too. Sell something brides cannot do without and feel they can only get from you.

I get it. I'm really not trying to worry about the other guy. I should have sole me and my photography harder and I didn't.

Am I a bit bummed that I lost a client to a photog with mediocre ways of attracting clients? Yes

My goal isn't to undercut my cost so that I earn more business. My goal is to provide exceptional service not only the day of but the days before and after the wedding.

I know my worth as a photographer and will put this behind me and focus on the next client.


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lvph2
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Jan 04, 2012 22:40 |  #30

Ditto what memoriesoftomorrow said. You lost a price shopper. You could have given them the moon, and they still would've gone with the el cheapo option. I see it all the time in jewelry/watches. It's sooooo annoying.

What makes it even worse......they bring the crap piece they bought in to us to get it sized. That's a nice rant I could write up. lol



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The frustrations of photography!!
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