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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 02 Jan 2012 (Monday) 19:12
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Photographer or Artist?

 
airfrogusmc
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Jan 04, 2012 08:24 |  #76

RDKirk wrote in post #13643993 (external link)
Wait, though, there was a transition period before that happened. Early on, it was serious art photographers who were the Pictorialists. That transitioned to the f64 school of thought.

The Straight Photography movement and thats because a cheap imitation of painting would never have brought photography to the point of being considered art and many photographers like Stieglitz and Steichen realized this and changed their pictorial ways and joined the likes of Sheeler and Strand and then out west Weston, Adams, Cunningham (f/64) in what finally brought photography to a serious art form by using the things that make photography unique from all other art forms.

The painter turned photographer Charles Sheeler.
" I have come to value photography more and more for those things which it alone can accomplish, rather than to discredit it for things that can only be achieved through another medium."-Charles Sheeler

For photography to move ahead at this time 1905-1920s it had to find its own voice and move away from trying to be something it wasn't. Outerbridge, Steiner and Evans all also realized this to in the early 1920s. Straight Photography was now alive and kicking and could stand on its own instead of trying to imitate and be something it wasn't.

"The arts equally have distinct departments, and unless photography has its own possibilities of expression, separate from those of the other arts, it is merely a process, not an art; but granted that it is an art, reliance should be placed unreservedly upon those possibilities, that they may be made to yield the fullest results." - Alfred Stieglitz

"Honesty no less than intensity of vision is the prerequisite of a living expression. This means a real respect for the thing in front of... the photographer... this is accomplished without tricks of process or manipulation through the use of straight photographic methods..." - Paul Strand

"Look at the things around you, the immediate world around you. If you are alive, it will mean something to you, and if you care enough about photography, and if you know how to use it, you will want to photograph that meaningness. If you let other people's vision get between the world and your own, you will achieve that extremely common and worthless thing, a pictorial photograph." - Paul Strand

Also wanter to add that many art historians also credit photography as being partially responsible for moving painting away from trying to do exact representations of things. The first photo was 1827 and by the mid part of the 1800s-1850s/1860s photography was becoming very popular and painters could now paint the way he/she felt and what their impressions of something was. They were now free to paint more the way the scene or the object felt to them because there was a machine (the camera) that could do it far better than any painter. Impressionism became a major movement in the 1870s so many think that photography had played a role in this movement.




  
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RDKirk
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Jan 04, 2012 10:07 as a reply to  @ airfrogusmc's post |  #77

The Straight Photography movement and thats because a cheap imitation of painting would never have brought photography to the point of being considered art and many photographers like Stieglitz and Steichen realized this and changed their pictorial ways and joined the likes of Sheeler and Strand and then out west Weston, Adams, Cunningham (f/64) in what finally brought photography to a serious art form by using the things that make photography unique to all other art forms.

Not saying it didn't happen, just saying there was a transition of thought--the first concept of photography as art was to continue the pictorial concept of painting.




  
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jetcode
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Jan 04, 2012 12:59 |  #78

airfrogusmc wrote in post #13640326 (external link)
Yes but hopeful there will be the constant urge to reach outside and the more one learns the more the chains will surely loosen ;)

I believe this urge is possibly akin to how you are wired. I am sure anyone who needs to put food on the table will step up urge or not. Some folks simply let their craft guide them. Jerry Uselsmann is a case in point. He mentioned that his creative process starts with finding images that may work together. He lets the images guide the process and he speaks of voices and intuition as highly influential. He also spoke of Minor White talking about the spirits that come and visit when he's working. Point being that perhaps striving is not as efficient as being. It should be noted that there was no language before the masters made their work. The language evolved but did not predate the expression. Much like music composition based on compositions that previously existed; the language is reverse engineering with formal notation.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Jan 04, 2012 13:45 |  #79

jetcode wrote in post #13645841 (external link)
I believe this urge is possibly akin to how you are wired. I am sure anyone who needs to put food on the table will step up urge or not. Some folks simply let their craft guide them. Jerry Uselsmann is a case in point. He mentioned that his creative process starts with finding images that may work together. He lets the images guide the process and he speaks of voices and intuition as highly influential. He also spoke of Minor White talking about the spirits that come and visit when he's working. Point being that perhaps striving is not as efficient as being. It should be noted that there was no language before the masters made their work. The language evolved but did not predate the expression. Much like music composition based on compositions that previously existed; the language is reverse engineering with formal notation.

I agree but the language exists and it all started with the first drawings on cave walls. The more fluent the more it becomes second nature the more it shows up in the work and the more you understand it in others works.

And Uelsmann has an MFA from Indiana University and has taught photography at University of Florida so he is very studied in visual language ;)




  
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TroyRaymond
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Jan 04, 2012 20:29 as a reply to  @ airfrogusmc's post |  #80

Wow, a lot of in depth conversation here. Myself as an artist I could care less about all the explanations. Having painted portraits on canvas, sculptures and such for so many years I would consider and artist just that, creating by hand using imagination.

I do understand Artistic Photography but consider the creators 'photographers'. So many times I've seen 'art' photos and wonder what anyone sees in them, they're photos. I know its all subjective, I just believe a few get lucky and find a niche to make a bunch of money without spending so many years laboring as a starving artist.

Personally, I burned out painting. Not as many people seek true paintings by artists as before. I've spent the last several years working a normal job (kind of) ;) , paying the bills and trying to perfect my flavor of photography to resemble the art I once painted, mainly because through photography it can be done much faster.

Having painted HUGE murals on building, canvas, auto's, how many photographers would get someone stopping by to watch the progress, while others have rude comments like 'it looks like crap'... only to follow through until completion to get a simple 'awesome' from the same people with no apologies... I believe to be an artist you should have to experience it all...

From this entire thread, I felt the closest were:

AWGD8 wrote in post #13639755 (external link)
.
I would probably see art work from long time Photog enthusiast... They do it on their free time and no pressure and no money involved. That is pure Art coming from individual's taste and mindset...

joedlh wrote in post #13640004 (external link)
To my way of thinking, an artist creates something original from thin air. It's a product of the mind's vision. It's easier to be an artist when one starts out with a blank canvas or a solid piece of marble, though it's harder to bring forth that masterpiece.

The other side, the fine art photographers? I've seen some creations that have awed me.The larger portion, however, strike me as poorly lit, poorly focused, and/or poorly composed expressions that went through Photoshop artistic filters. Or maybe art is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

So, now that I've typed nearly as much as the rest of you, in short.... :D If I want my photography to be art, I'd simply paint one of my photos by hand using a pencil, paint brush, etc., it's like magic. lol




  
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You-by-Lou
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Jan 05, 2012 14:35 |  #81

TroyRaymond wrote in post #13648147 (external link)
I just believe a few get lucky and find a niche to make a bunch of money without spending so many years laboring as a starving artist.

Personally, I burned out painting.

I believe to be an artist you should have to experience it all...

please..............yo​ur path is not everyone else's
that's like saying Eric Clapton can't play the blues because he was never down to his last nickel on the Delta

a few get "Lucky" where is the luck? they took a chance...they took the shot brought it to the right people, they had a camera etc etc....no luck involved
Good fortune comes to those who are well prepared.

perhaps to be a sullen artist one needs those experiences


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