Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 04 Jan 2012 (Wednesday) 17:52
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Why the grain? Help!

 
boufa
Senior Member
Avatar
494 posts
Likes: 18
Joined Dec 2005
Location: Lake County, OH
     
Jan 04, 2012 17:52 |  #1

I hope this is the right section of the forums for this.

I realize that there are lots of variables, I tried to keep this as pure as possible. Does anyone know why the sky (and its all over the photo, but the sky shows it best) is so pixeled and grainy?

First the process... 2 images 1 a crop, the other unaltered. Shot on a canon 40d in raw. Taken into lightroom, and exported as a jpg. The issues exist even in lightroom as raw, and at both 400 and 800 iso. only sharpening is the lightroom standard 25/1.0.

I am shooting at 8mp, and posting at 1000x1000 (approx) I have a hard time beliveing that the crop caused it. It even appears when I look at the image a 100% on the screen without the crop... in fact it does not get worse when I look at the crop, so I doubt the crop is effecting it.

IMAGE: http://www.towpathphoto.com/img/s11/v36/p573046504-4.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.towpathphoto.com/img/s11/v36/p770127280-4.jpg

Canon EOS 7D & 40D | Σ 10-20mm Wigma | Σ 150-600mm | Σ 18-250mm Macro | Canon 18-135 STM | Canon 55-250 STM
Gallery/Website/Blog - TowPathPhoto (external link)
Social Media - - - on Flickr (external link) . . . on Twitter (external link)
Creator of @OhioBirdAlert (external link) on Twitter

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
boufa
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
494 posts
Likes: 18
Joined Dec 2005
Location: Lake County, OH
     
Jan 04, 2012 17:55 |  #2

A over crop showing the grain I am speaking of. I realize that the over crop makes it look worse than it is, but I thought it might be easier to see this way.

IMAGE: http://www.towpathphoto.com/img/s3/v38/p63000848-4.jpg

Canon EOS 7D & 40D | Σ 10-20mm Wigma | Σ 150-600mm | Σ 18-250mm Macro | Canon 18-135 STM | Canon 55-250 STM
Gallery/Website/Blog - TowPathPhoto (external link)
Social Media - - - on Flickr (external link) . . . on Twitter (external link)
Creator of @OhioBirdAlert (external link) on Twitter

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tonylong
...winded
Avatar
54,657 posts
Gallery: 60 photos
Likes: 542
Joined Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
     
Jan 04, 2012 18:38 |  #3

Well, I'm not surprised that there would be some noise from a 40D shot at ISO 800, and yes, when you have a nice blue sky digital noise can show! I'd just apply some Lightroom noise reduction and it should be fine -- it's not like it's harsh.

An alternative to using the global Noise Reduction slider would be to open a Local Adjustment brush, "zero" all the settings except the Sharpening slider. Slide that all the way back and brush it over the sky and see how it does.


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
Moderator
Avatar
75,846 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2505
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Jan 04, 2012 23:31 |  #4

tonylong wrote in post #13647574 (external link)
Well, I'm not surprised that there would be some noise from a 40D shot at ISO 800,...

I'm wondering why you needed the DOF from using f/11? Maybe f/8 & ISO 400 would have worked better for cutting the noise.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
boufa
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
494 posts
Likes: 18
Joined Dec 2005
Location: Lake County, OH
     
Jan 05, 2012 00:37 |  #5

PhotosGuy wrote in post #13649068 (external link)
I'm wondering why you needed the DOF from using f/11? Maybe f/8 & ISO 400 would have worked better for cutting the noise.

I was playing around with a new lens, and I was going from very bright to very dark, and wanted to keep my shutter speed up. Since I was trying to figure out the physical part of managing a large lens, and tracking BIF, I was not too worried about changing the camera settings.

I was expecting more. I was pixel peeping my shots from my new Bigmos and checking to see how focus was doing, and I was surprised by the noise. I guess I just don't look that close normally. I understand better now, have done some reading on noise reduction in lightroom.

Looks like I need to start saving up for an 80D (yea, I know, but it will be out by the time I have the money)


Canon EOS 7D & 40D | Σ 10-20mm Wigma | Σ 150-600mm | Σ 18-250mm Macro | Canon 18-135 STM | Canon 55-250 STM
Gallery/Website/Blog - TowPathPhoto (external link)
Social Media - - - on Flickr (external link) . . . on Twitter (external link)
Creator of @OhioBirdAlert (external link) on Twitter

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tonylong
...winded
Avatar
54,657 posts
Gallery: 60 photos
Likes: 542
Joined Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
     
Jan 05, 2012 01:06 |  #6

All digital cameras produce some noise, and when and how that noise becomes noticeable depends in various variables, one being the characteristics of the sensor being used, one being the light being captured via the aperture and shutter speed and then the amplification of the higher ISO, which makes low light together with collected noise more visible, and then there are things like that blue sky, which in good light is nice and clean, but with lower light/lower exposure/high ISO, can show noise.

And, the 40D is an "older" generation of sensor meaning that noise can become more noticeable at lower ISOs than the newer generation, and then there are the larger "full frame" sensors that show less noise at the same ISOs, although, like I said, no digital camera is noise free, and even the newer sensors can show noise at ISO 800 under the "right" (wrong) conditions.

The good news is that at a normal print/viewing size the noise you see at 100% is barely if at all perceptible. But, if you print large or crop close, well, what you see is what you see. This is where noise reduction becomes a real friend to those of us who shoot things such as wildlife.


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tzalman
Fatal attraction.
Avatar
13,468 posts
Likes: 195
Joined Apr 2005
Location: Gesher Haziv, Israel
     
Jan 05, 2012 03:37 |  #7

If you are using the LR sharpening defaults, that means that Mask is at 0. Which in turn means that you are sharpening the sky and sharpening the noise. Increase Mask while holding down Alt/Opt (which turns the image to black & white) until the sky turns black. This will remove the sharpening from the sky.


Elie / אלי

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
Moderator
Avatar
75,846 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2505
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Jan 05, 2012 09:09 |  #8

tzalman wrote in post #13649682 (external link)
If you are using the LR sharpening defaults, that means that Mask is at 0. Which in turn means that you are sharpening the sky and sharpening the noise. Increase Mask while holding down Alt/Opt (which turns the image to black & white) until the sky turns black. This will remove the sharpening from the sky.

Good point!
For those not using LR, A few words on SHARPENING:

Sticky: Sharpening Tips & Tricks, Tutorials, and FAQ


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

1,112 views & 0 likes for this thread
Why the grain? Help!
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Darrelclose
1983 guests, 300 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.