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Thread started 02 Jan 2012 (Monday) 02:44
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Pirating . . .

 
saturnin
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Jan 05, 2012 03:42 |  #16
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sell it for less and make it downloadable dont even bother with DVD/BLUERAY- its just another added cost that can go toward production/bandwith
to make 1000 BLUE RAYS is about 6000US
to make 1000 DVD-9 is about 2300US

to sell your download for 9.99 - you will save on
using your car
using gas
paying for stamps (even the expensive ones to USA)
paying for envelopes
paying for someones time that has to put them in the envelope and take them to the post office( and if you do it or have a friend who does it for free, good on ya)

all those cost add up real fast

there are many alternatives to have your video hosted and ready for downloads - of course its not free but after you factor in the savings from not going to waste to send them and or making the DVD/BLUE Ray. IT MAKES SENSE.

itunes or other form of content delivery - there are many alternatives - i say itunes because ppl are familiar with it. To get on itunes you still need to spend money but, it is a proven content delivery system that ppl trust and are familiar with and will get you many many views/possible sales. I dont know how much itunes takes compared to paypal, but such is the cost of doing business. You trade one evil for another and hopefully a lesser one.

sure you are no LOUIS CK - he already has a fan base, hence he can sell 100,000 units to his fans at 5 bucks. I"ve no problem paying an artist that i like, but when i'm not a huge fan and still want to check them out.. shelling out the full amount will not happen, paying 5-10 bucks for something i may or may not enjoy, that i can do.

here is quick example, there is this video game delivery content system called STEAM - they are the number 1 game delivery system on the internet/planet, no one comes close. They sell this bundle called "the indie bundle" - which includes like 5 or so indie games. They allow the end user pay what they want for this bundle of games. So anywhere from .1 cent to whatever they want. THey made millions selling these bundles, and most ppl pay between 6-12 dollars.
Yes they have a huge distribution deal with STEAM and of course steam makes a cut, but still. Even if they sell 10, 000 units at 4 dollars - thats not to bad.

i imagine your sales have stopped for your movie - time to get it for download and sell it again - maybe add another scene and call it BONUS or REVAMPED/NEW/EXTRA/NEV​ER BEFORE SEEN..bla bla ..whatever, get some new life into it and sell it again. MARKETING, MARKETING, MARKETING :)

mabye instead of doing a full part 2 of the series - shoot half of 2 and do 4 set ups and not 8 set ups - sell that along with the first DVD as EXTENDED or whatever i called it in the paragraph above..lol

or maybe - just maybe - here.. you owe me for this big time - i expect a free log in ahahahahahahah - seriously

set up a site and sell all your setups per scene for 5 bucks or whatever you want to charge

1 light set up 5 bucks
2 light set up 5 bucks
3 ligth set up 5 bucks
beach shot with one reflector 5 bucks

you get the idea...... ppl will only pay for what they want - and if they want to learn all of it - they can - you can bundle them up for some savings - buy 5 scenes and get one for free. Or have 3 basic light setups that include 1 2 3 and get 20 percent off... bla bla bla.

Being an artist is all about selling oneself or product - making it is the easy part as you know it.

btw this info is on the house for everyone out there to take in
good luck


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http://www.asphaltjunk​iez.com (external link) - award winning filmmaker - 3 documentaries done, more to go. I'm not wasting this 1 life.
Gear is gear, gotta do wif what you got! This forum makes me bite my tongue like no other forum i've ever been on :)

  
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Thorrulz
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Jan 05, 2012 04:29 |  #17

saturnin wrote in post #13649697 (external link)
sell it for less and make it downloadable dont even bother with DVD/BLUERAY- its just another added cost that can go toward production/bandwith
to make 1000 BLUE RAYS is about 6000US
to make 1000 DVD-9 is about 2300US

to sell your download for 9.99 - you will save on
using your car
using gas
paying for stamps (even the expensive ones to USA)
paying for envelopes
paying for someones time that has to put them in the envelope and take them to the post office( and if you do it or have a friend who does it for free, good on ya)

all those cost add up real fast

there are many alternatives to have your video hosted and ready for downloads - of course its not free but after you factor in the savings from not going to waste to send them and or making the DVD/BLUE Ray. IT MAKES SENSE.

itunes or other form of content delivery - there are many alternatives - i say itunes because ppl are familiar with it. To get on itunes you still need to spend money but, it is a proven content delivery system that ppl trust and are familiar with and will get you many many views/possible sales. I dont know how much itunes takes compared to paypal, but such is the cost of doing business. You trade one evil for another and hopefully a lesser one.

sure you are no LOUIS CK - he already has a fan base, hence he can sell 100,000 units to his fans at 5 bucks. I"ve no problem paying an artist that i like, but when i'm not a huge fan and still want to check them out.. shelling out the full amount will not happen, paying 5-10 bucks for something i may or may not enjoy, that i can do.

here is quick example, there is this video game delivery content system called STEAM - they are the number 1 game delivery system on the internet/planet, no one comes close. They sell this bundle called "the indie bundle" - which includes like 5 or so indie games. They allow the end user pay what they want for this bundle of games. So anywhere from .1 cent to whatever they want. THey made millions selling these bundles, and most ppl pay between 6-12 dollars.
Yes they have a huge distribution deal with STEAM and of course steam makes a cut, but still. Even if they sell 10, 000 units at 4 dollars - thats not to bad.

i imagine your sales have stopped for your movie - time to get it for download and sell it again - maybe add another scene and call it BONUS or REVAMPED/NEW/EXTRA/NEV​ER BEFORE SEEN..bla bla ..whatever, get some new life into it and sell it again. MARKETING, MARKETING, MARKETING :)

mabye instead of doing a full part 2 of the series - shoot half of 2 and do 4 set ups and not 8 set ups - sell that along with the first DVD as EXTENDED or whatever i called it in the paragraph above..lol

or maybe - just maybe - here.. you owe me for this big time - i expect a free log in ahahahahahahah - seriously

set up a site and sell all your setups per scene for 5 bucks or whatever you want to charge

1 light set up 5 bucks
2 light set up 5 bucks
3 ligth set up 5 bucks
beach shot with one reflector 5 bucks

you get the idea...... ppl will only pay for what they want - and if they want to learn all of it - they can - you can bundle them up for some savings - buy 5 scenes and get one for free. Or have 3 basic light setups that include 1 2 3 and get 20 percent off... bla bla bla.

Being an artist is all about selling oneself or product - making it is the easy part as you know it.

btw this info is on the house for everyone out there to take in
good luck

I sure am glad you aren't the salesman at my local camera shop. I already spend to much there.;)
Great advice btw.


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mpix345
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Jan 05, 2012 11:48 as a reply to  @ Thorrulz's post |  #18

I don't disagree at all with what saturnin is saying, but I think the OPs real point was that it is disappointing that photographers -- who are keenly aware and concerned about these sorts of issues -- would be reselling or outright pirating Jason's work. It would be nice to think that this "community" would want to continue to support a member who is seemingly trying hard to give something back.


  
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saturnin
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Jan 05, 2012 12:13 |  #19
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to be honest - ppl need to stop being dissapointed and face the fact - if you produce a piece of art, it will be copied, shared, possibly copies sold of it, and i dont mean the original re-sold.

You go to any video store, you will find previously watched movies for less, am i right?
If you go to any video game store, you will find used video games for less, am i right?
you go to the flea market, you will find previously used crap, am i right?

you will also find stolen goods in all those places, especially video game stores and flea markets - this is no different.

the only big difference is that when it happens to you, especially if you poured your MONEY, heart & soul, it sucks to see that. LIke i said, i know first hand. IT especially sucks to see that when a distribution company ****s you over for 5000 UNITS and they dont pay and you cant do **** about it because you are inexperienced in dealing with companies/people/busin​ess.

for the amount of records that lame METALICA sold and their fight with PIRACY, they still made a mint killing.

at the end of the day, piracy, sharing..while it sucks, its not that bad. It possibly gets the product out to new ppl and for me that is the most important thing. OTherwise whats the point of making anything if no one sees is, regardless if they pay or not. And you will always find someone who will purchase your product, ALWAYS.

So you dont sell 1000, copies in your opening week, ****, sell 400 and then move the rest in 3 months...with different marketing strategies.


http://www.saturninflo​yd.tumblr.com (external link) samples
http://www.asphaltjunk​iez.com (external link) - award winning filmmaker - 3 documentaries done, more to go. I'm not wasting this 1 life.
Gear is gear, gotta do wif what you got! This forum makes me bite my tongue like no other forum i've ever been on :)

  
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saturnin
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Jan 05, 2012 12:15 |  #20
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yah, i'd get you to buy crap you dont need, hehehe - perfect example look at BH photovideo, they have some of the lowest prices for electronic goods, sometimes their mark up is so small, you wonder how they make money, right? Takes no scientist, they make money with selling volume. They have so much stuff for sale that with all the volume, earning 15-25% markup on doing million dollar months, s4it adds up real fast - very smart, nothing new there.

Thorrulz wrote in post #13649796 (external link)
I sure am glad you aren't the salesman at my local camera shop. I already spend to much there.;)
Great advice btw.


http://www.saturninflo​yd.tumblr.com (external link) samples
http://www.asphaltjunk​iez.com (external link) - award winning filmmaker - 3 documentaries done, more to go. I'm not wasting this 1 life.
Gear is gear, gotta do wif what you got! This forum makes me bite my tongue like no other forum i've ever been on :)

  
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richardyoung
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Jan 05, 2012 13:32 |  #21

Jason trust me I understand, the first time I was published in Maxim mag, was when someone stole my work and went on to publish in Maxim. Internet thief is really bad, and a lot of people are doing things to fix it or correct it. Jason you like one of my models ( kayden love) just type her name in to google, you will like 16 million hits back.. and about 90% of those are illegal file sharing sites.


We are working on some really advance tracking technology and then sueing people. So far it has been working well, but honestly I am not sure how much of a difference it is going to make, there is a new generation of kids on the internet and they want everything for free. THey are used to youtube, facebook, google plus and so many other sites that are all free, they have come to think if it is on the internet it is free.

We have tryed to create new images faster than people can really pirate it, and sometimes that is works, but not really. At any point we lose hundreds of thousands of dollars a year because of people illegal downloading stuff..


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Jason ­ Cole
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Jan 05, 2012 14:35 |  #22

Since the pirating / reselling started, I have sold virtually nothing, mabe 8-10 copies... And people have the hide to email me asking me questions that have not even purchased it from me. One guy in Perth even said that he downloaded it from a BitTorrent site and did not realize it was a (c) product????

I can totally understand companies like 20th century fox etc selling then having resold their titles, but the difference is they are billion dollar companies who make hundres of millions profit on some movies, I'm a small company and the re-sales really hurt new sales, and let's face it, people loved the DVD and got a lot of good information out of it.... Is there even ONE person that thinks its not worth the $69?

So u have got your DVD, watched it, learned from it, then you take money away from dvd2 by selling second hand copies, all your REALLY doing is being greedy AND shooting yourself in the foot... As the combination of cheap second hand copies and pirating resulted in the cancellation of DVD2....


Cheers, Jason Cole
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saturnin
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Jan 05, 2012 14:50 |  #23
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i'm sorry that you feel this way JASON - but this is the price of doing business. Stop complaining about lost sales, the energy you spend posting here about it, is the energy you are not using to think of new and inventive ideas for your business. As i've said before, the business models are changing fast, you need to adapt or be left in the dust holding your camera strap.

here is the honest truth - regardless if u are a big company or a small one.

if someone has a product that is great, the word will spread around and people will pay for it, and the number of sales vs the number of pirated stuff will even out and you will not NOTICE the DAMAGE that much. You as a ARTIST need to get over it and find new ways of MARKETING your product to people, if you dont, then you will be in the state you are now.

I'm not sure what else i can say on this topic. I gave you and the readers here so many options of new ways to get the product out, and make money. Dont be afraid of change, work with it. I know it sounds like cliche BS but its bloody true.

Stop complainin over the same thing and do somethign about it.

Its like when someone is in a relationship and they end it, one partner always is the hurt one, and then their friends hear about it for months, and posssibly years, on and on about how that other person broke their heart, etc. Do you know how annoying that is, same old story, lol. You as a person have to keep moving forward.

no one here can help you with stopping piracy unfortunately


http://www.saturninflo​yd.tumblr.com (external link) samples
http://www.asphaltjunk​iez.com (external link) - award winning filmmaker - 3 documentaries done, more to go. I'm not wasting this 1 life.
Gear is gear, gotta do wif what you got! This forum makes me bite my tongue like no other forum i've ever been on :)

  
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hawk911
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Jan 05, 2012 14:56 |  #24

the downloaded copies I agree with- it's piracy. But for someone to sell something they no longer value is just good old capitalism. It's also exposure! A new person gets exposed to your work and might be inclined to "subscribe" to other offerings you create in the future.


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Ledrak
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Jan 05, 2012 14:56 |  #25

Jason Cole wrote in post #13652443 (external link)
Is there even ONE person that thinks its not worth the $69?

I haven't seen the DVD, but seriously bro (and I mean no offense)... but I don't think any DVD is worth 69 bucks. 19.95 tops! When you start asking people to fork over more than 20 bucks for a DVD, you'd better have something else included in the package that makes up for the extra price. And I'm not talking about the content on the disk. You'd better have a signed piece of memorabilia or something (but unless your stuff can generate money at auction, I don't see that working either).




  
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saturnin
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Jan 05, 2012 15:02 |  #26
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^^ exactly

look at it this way again, you can go on youtube or anywhere on the web and google " how to use a light" and it will show you a tutorial how to do it for FREE. Youtube has so many videos on light set ups etc for FREE.

No one cares anymore about names, the new generation of ppl dont care if Annie Lebowitz came out with a tutorial on how to shoot, do u know why? Because tastes/trends are changing. Also everyone is a bloody photographer now, where as back in the day things were different. IT was an ART so to speak, at least to the ppl who could afford gear and understood the basics of iso,shutter,fstop. Now with cameras being so easy to use, with practice you can learn all that stuff in 2 months. doesnt mean u will be a good shooter but u might be competent enough to get away with shooting stuff that looks average at best. The mystery of PHOTOGRAPhy is long gone - kinda like pilots from the 50/60/70's NO one gives a rats ass about a pilot, def not kids.

you have to adapt and selling a dvd for 69 bucks plus shipping on top of it, is insane. I"m not going to repeat myself but read my comments about pricing, etc.


http://www.saturninflo​yd.tumblr.com (external link) samples
http://www.asphaltjunk​iez.com (external link) - award winning filmmaker - 3 documentaries done, more to go. I'm not wasting this 1 life.
Gear is gear, gotta do wif what you got! This forum makes me bite my tongue like no other forum i've ever been on :)

  
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Ledrak
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Jan 05, 2012 15:05 |  #27

saturnin wrote in post #13652519 (external link)
if someone has a product that is great, the word will spread around and people will pay for it, and the number of sales vs the number of pirated stuff will even out and you will not NOTICE the DAMAGE that much.

That's not always true. I know people that are being crippled by piracy. The remedy and management is not always that simple. A lot depends on your market, audience, etc. I definitely agree with what you're saying overall, but piracy has and will continue to destroy a lot of businesses.




  
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10megapixel
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Jan 05, 2012 15:05 as a reply to  @ saturnin's post |  #28

Pirating? on the internet?



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tommykjensen
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Jan 05, 2012 15:07 |  #29

Just one note to all.

If you notice any member using our marketplace to sell or buy illegal copies of copyrigthed material then use the report post button that is found on all posts

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'text/html'
.

We will absolutely NOT accept any member using POTN to sell or buy illegal copies of copyrighted material. Justitce will be swift and harsh!

EDITING OF MY PHOTOS IS NOT ALLOWED

  
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saturnin
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Jan 05, 2012 15:07 |  #30
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its always about demographic, you are not going to sell expensive shoes to a beggar online...come on.

no one said that the REMEDY/MANAGEMENT is simple, but there are ways to make your business do well. And sometimes you throw all at it and it still fails, hence its called business. ITs a dog eat dog world guys, once again. Nothing new here.

98% of restaurants fail in the first few months, just business.


http://www.saturninflo​yd.tumblr.com (external link) samples
http://www.asphaltjunk​iez.com (external link) - award winning filmmaker - 3 documentaries done, more to go. I'm not wasting this 1 life.
Gear is gear, gotta do wif what you got! This forum makes me bite my tongue like no other forum i've ever been on :)

  
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