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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 05 Jan 2012 (Thursday) 15:00
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use of RAW images

 
RDKirk
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Jan 07, 2012 21:37 |  #16

rob0225 wrote in post #13665426 (external link)
not to get off topic...but $25 for a 4*6 seems extremely expensive.

Depends on what his 8x10s sell for. Many photographers bottom their print prices out at 8x10 or 5x7...you can buy a 4x6 if you really want to, but it will be the same price as the 8x10 or 5x7. Me? I don't do 4x6, but I will do books.

If someone asked me for the RAW images so that they could edit them...that is a big-city commercial practice, and they'd have to pay big-city commercial prices.




  
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cdifoto
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Jan 07, 2012 21:40 |  #17

RDKirk wrote in post #13665565 (external link)
Depends on what his 8x10s sell for. Many photographers bottom their print prices out at 8x10 or 5x7...you can buy a 4x6 if you really want to, but it will be the same price as the 8x10 or 5x7. Me? I don't do 4x6, but I will do books.

If someone asked me for the RAW images so that they could edit them...that is a big-city commercial practice, and they'd have to pay big-city commercial prices.

That's how I am. It takes the same work to retouch an 8x10 as it does a wallet so anything from 8x10 down costs the same.


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Bosscat
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Jan 07, 2012 21:46 |  #18

cdifoto wrote in post #13665519 (external link)
I don't think he's bragging. He's letting you know the reality of what happens after you put the digitals out there on the world wide web.

You're living in a bubble if you think people don't share digital proofs, take pictures of prints, scan prints, etc.

Oh I am more then well aware of what low lifes people are.

But you would think any involved in photography wouldn't be such a scumbag.


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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cdifoto
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Jan 07, 2012 21:55 |  #19

Bosscat wrote in post #13665595 (external link)
Oh I am more then well aware of what low lifes people are.

But you would think any involved in photography wouldn't be such a scumbag.

Here's the thing. While you call him a scumbag, I encourage the practice. I like it when people pass my work around. If it's unfinished proofs, it's obnoxiously marked as such but people still like seeing their friends. Then they see the finished stuff and they go "wow!"

Quite frankly I'm not surprised you're not doing well. You have a very negative attitude and people don't like buying from people who call them scum.


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GadgetRick
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Jan 08, 2012 09:18 |  #20

cdifoto wrote in post #13665631 (external link)
Here's the thing. While you call him a scumbag, I encourage the practice. I like it when people pass my work around. If it's unfinished proofs, it's obnoxiously marked as such but people still like seeing their friends. Then they see the finished stuff and they go "wow!"

I agree on some levels.

One thing I've learned about photographers is we all tend to over-value what we do. Let's not forget, what we offer is a luxury not a necessity. Basically, people don't have to buy out stuff.

More importantly, how many of us have photos of their kids in their wallets? I haven't had one in my wallet for YEARS. Why? I have them on my phone. My phone can also access places I've stored photos online. Why on Earth do I need to print photos like I used to?

We need to understand that, today, digital photos are much more important (overall) to most people out there. They want to show them on there phone, iPad, etc. They want to share them on FB. They want to email them. Most people could care less about printing them. It's not like the old film days when you had to print in order to see the photo.

So, rather than fighting this situation it's beyond a trend at this point), I'd rather accept it. I give digital photos with ALL of my shoots. I charge more than the next guy for that but I don't try and get a huge amount of money for it because, well, they aren't gonna pay too much for it. I don't give it away but I'm not asking for $1,000 or something like that for shots from an e-session. Makes no sense.

I laugh at many photographers still stuck in that, "I'm not giving them their digital files (not talking unedited here) because then they won't come to me for prints!" Honestly, what percentage of people are coming back for prints? My guess is you might have a higher percentage with a wedding than anything else but what's that percentage? 10%? 5%? What are you going to do with those files anyway?

I'd rather have people have my work, share it, talk about how they loved it and talk about how I'm much easier to work with and that they get their files after they pay me for my services.

Now, I'm not saying to not sell prints. I do sell prints but I don't live/die by them. Can't really mark them up all that much anyway since they can go almost anywhere to have prints done. I tell them I can do 8x10 and below but, unless they're taking an 8x10 or above and framing it/hanging it they're fine getting the print done at Walgreens or one of the other of a million places they can go for cheap prints. Because, well, honestly, it's true.

We can all still try and resist where photography has gone and stomp our feet and complain about people wanting their files but, at some point, we all need to face it. Prints are a dying breed.

Disclaimer: I'm not talking about commercial shoots nor am I talking about giving unedited images included with the price. I don't give unedited images EVER (I don't do any commercial work.).




  
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Brandon72
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Jan 08, 2012 11:33 |  #21

cdifoto wrote in post #13665519 (external link)
I don't think he's bragging. He's letting you know the reality of what happens after you put the digitals out there on the world wide web.

You're living in a bubble if you think people don't share digital proofs, take pictures of prints, scan prints, etc.

Of course they do. I'm well aware of it however, would you as a photographer do it to another photographer? It's extremely common with event photography, for people to just snatch up watermarked proofs - but as someone who makes a living off it and knows how that can affect someone's livelihood, would you personally do it or encourage it yourself?

Edit - I guess you would. Never mind then. :P I personally wouldn't. I don't buy one painting and expect the rest of the set for free. I don't buy one apple and expect the rest for free. It may be common but that doesn't mean I would encourage people to steal another photographer's work.




  
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cdifoto
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Jan 09, 2012 00:44 |  #22

Brandon72 wrote in post #13667925 (external link)
Of course they do. I'm well aware of it however, would you as a photographer do it to another photographer? It's extremely common with event photography, for people to just snatch up watermarked proofs - but as someone who makes a living off it and knows how that can affect someone's livelihood, would you personally do it or encourage it yourself?

Edit - I guess you would. Never mind then. :P I personally wouldn't. I don't buy one painting and expect the rest of the set for free. I don't buy one apple and expect the rest for free. It may be common but that doesn't mean I would encourage people to steal another photographer's work.

I don't encourage people to steal from others.

People pay enough for my service that I consider use of the digitals an unstated perk.

I am, after all, only referring to Facebook sizes. I'm not uploading the full image file for the snagging.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Jan 09, 2012 00:49 |  #23

Brandon72 wrote in post #13667925 (external link)
Edit - I guess you would. Never mind then. :P I personally wouldn't. I don't buy one painting and expect the rest of the set for free. I don't buy one apple and expect the rest for free. It may be common but that doesn't mean I would encourage people to steal another photographer's work.

+1 to this. I expect stealing from members of the public and even from ignorant hobby togs, but not from someone who makes their living as a photographer. Still I guess now we all know where to go for free images of cars :)


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Bosscat
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Jan 09, 2012 07:15 |  #24

cdifoto wrote in post #13665631 (external link)
Here's the thing. While you call him a scumbag, I encourage the practice. I like it when people pass my work around. If it's unfinished proofs, it's obnoxiously marked as such but people still like seeing their friends. Then they see the finished stuff and they go "wow!"

Quite frankly I'm not surprised you're not doing well. You have a very negative attitude and people don't like buying from people who call them scum.

I'll be over to steal your car sometime and see how you like that

Theft is theft.........plain and simple.


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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cdifoto
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Jan 09, 2012 08:05 |  #25

Bosscat wrote in post #13672567 (external link)
I'll be over to steal your car sometime and see how you like that

Theft is theft.........plain and simple.

You really don't get it, do you? Did you become hateful before, or after your business tanked?


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Bosscat
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Jan 09, 2012 08:22 as a reply to  @ cdifoto's post |  #26

No, you and many here just do not get it, that if you basically post stuff up on the web, even with a watermark, you just cut your own throat. People are more then happy to just surf your site, download your photos on their facebook and thats the end of it, as their friends get to see it.

They just want to show their little friends, and if they can do it without paying, they are even happier as they think they just put one over on you.

I see all kinds of this daily on facebook, where people will go mine event shooters sites and spend an hour of more going through those sites for a few pics of themselves for facebook. I have offered to sell people facebook sized images and they just laugh and say they will even go get these free photos from off the net, as they claim they have no money to pay for photos.


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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cdifoto
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Jan 09, 2012 08:35 |  #27

You're oblivious. It's sad. What's even sadder is how angry you are.


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Bosscat
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Jan 09, 2012 08:45 |  #28

Whatever........when you see people that you know own garages with labour rates of $85 an hour and all they do is want you to post images so their kids can snag them for facebook, you come to realize you are a fool to fall for their games.

I won't play those games, because those same people will screw you every chance they get


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cdifoto
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Jan 09, 2012 08:50 |  #29

Bosscat wrote in post #13672871 (external link)
Whatever........when you see people that you know own garages with labour rates of $85 an hour and all they do is want you to post images so their kids can snag them for facebook, you come to realize you are a fool to fall for their games.

I won't play those games, because those same people will screw you every chance they get

Yes you were a fool if you posted those images without any form of compensation whatsoever. If you stop fuming for a second and read my posts, you'll see that I encourage no such thing.


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zilos
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Apr 12, 2012 19:09 |  #30

this turned into a heating argument real fast huh? Either way, I really appreciate all the feedback you guys gave me. Its hard sometimes to protect your precious photos when you really want to show it to the world. I guess we just have to find creative ways in protecting what we shoot.


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