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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Glamour & Nude Talk 
Thread started 02 Jan 2012 (Monday) 02:44
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Pirating . . .

 
Moppie
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Jan 08, 2012 21:14 |  #46

BJWOK wrote in post #13670783 (external link)
It shouldn't cost more than 6 to 7 bucks to mail a DVD across Australia.

True cost is nearly half that, (assuming volume based whole sale rates with AU Post of course).
I think we payed about AU$3.50 for a DVD sized package inserted directly at one of the mail centers.
A lower volume rate would be around AU$4-5.


That said, it's not uncommon to run a low margin on your product, just enough to recover costs, then generate margin and profit through shipping charges.

For example B&H want US$50 to ship two compact flash cards to NZ.
I used to drop ship books, DVD's etc out of the US, so I know it costs only a fraction of that. They will be paying USPS US$2-3 and might incur a few dollars in picking/packing cost.


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Jason ­ Cole
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Jan 08, 2012 21:26 |  #47

BJWOK, did you not learn $114.92 worth of information from my DVD?

With all the money that us photographers are shelling out its such a small amount of money to pay for that much knowledge......

It was simply too difficult with our current website to charge two currencies, with the NEW website we are working on, its a lot more flashier and modern.... so stay tuned... :-)


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BJWOK
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Jan 08, 2012 21:51 |  #48

To be completely truthful, I wouldn't want to put a dollar figure on what I learnt from your DVD.

My point was that you are an Aussie and so am I, yet I had to purchase your DVD with US dollars.

Your website never mentioned it was US dollars.


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Moppie
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Jan 08, 2012 21:54 |  #49

Jason Cole wrote in post #13670884 (external link)
It was simply too difficult with our current website to charge two currencies, with the NEW website we are working on, its a lot more flashier and modern.... so stay tuned... :-)



It's amazing the difference a good website can make.

We're going through a big redevelopment process at the moment, lots of automation and with some really clever database stuff in the back end.

But, I'm still trying to convince my business partner of the importance of how the website looks and works.
We can take all the photos we want and have a really clever way of showing them off, but if it's hard to navigate or looks ugly, people simply will not buy.
It's the maybe's that get turned away.


There is a theory that if people can't find what they want and proceed to the check out in less than 7 clicks, they will go else where.
Like wise you have about 5-7 sec to grab someone and pull them in before they will go else where.
Your product lists need to be right out in the open and easy to see.

I've seen the stats from a website that support it and I know that the less clicks the higher the conversion rate.

The thing to remember is this works for EVERYTHING you sell online.
Doesn't matter if its a specialized DVD with a high level of market demand, or books on amazon.


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saturnin
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Jan 08, 2012 22:13 |  #50
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heh..really.. did you just ask him if he leanred 114.92 worth of info ..:)

Jason Cole wrote in post #13670884 (external link)
BJWOK, did you not learn $114.92 worth of information from my DVD?


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S.Horton
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Jan 08, 2012 22:29 |  #51

Jason, sorry that happened to you.

Recently, I had many conversations about creating software certification training.

Here's how it ended.

I found that online subscription training delivered on copy proof platforms is now typical.

Content is released in little slices over time.

It still gets stolen, mostly in India where, just by chance, the major players host the training content.

It gets translated by the Chinese, in the main, then copied and sold.

Long story short, if I do anything it will be short self published eBooks under $5 at around 100 pp each.

It is an exercise designed to raise a PR profile, not to make money on.

That is unfortunately a reality of our global Internet.


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Moppie
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Jan 08, 2012 22:34 |  #52

saturnin wrote in post #13671120 (external link)
heh..really.. did you just ask him if he leanred 114.92 worth of info ..:)



I think so :oops:

The information has no value.
Its widely available for free from any number of different sources (this forum for example can teach you infinitely more than could ever fit on a DVD).


What has value is the experience, the how that information is delivered, the way the end user is able to take it in, interact with it and make use of it.
That is what your selling.

Instructional DVD's videos are a hang over from instructional VHS videos, something that was cool in the 80s because you the information was presented in a visual and audio format, something that in the 80s was new and revolutionary.
You could even interact with it, fast forwarding and rewinding to get to the bits you wanted to watch, or to watch something several times until you understood it.

While a DVD builds on that, the concept is exactly the same, and well, we now live in a world loaded with visual and audio content.
It's not new and exciting anymore.

Interactive web based content however is new exciting and interesting and people do pay to be part of it.


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Moppie
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Jan 08, 2012 22:40 |  #53

S.Horton wrote in post #13671198 (external link)
Long story short, if I do anything it will be short self published eBooks under $5 at around 100 pp each.

It is an exercise designed to raise a PR profile, not to make money on.

That is unfortunately a reality of our global Internet.



It is an unfortunate reality, but not one that is stopping people from making money.

If you can offer original content for the same cost as the pirated material, or at a low enough cost with a distribution method that makes it easier to get than through piracy, then no one will bother with the pirated content.

I wonder how many views the DVD would have generated had it been put on youtube in short 10min sections?

With the proper key wording it could have easily gone viral, if the advice and knowledge is really that good, it definitely would have.
The advertising revenue from several hundred thousand views is likely to more than the sales of a few hundred DVD's.


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S.Horton
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Jan 08, 2012 23:32 |  #54

Assuming you could control the ad revenue, maybe.

At least with training, and a lot of software, it is just blatantly copied, perhaps renamed, then sold by someone else who keeps the money.

That is one reason many people would prefer cloud models with complex or closed-loop systems. It is also why XBox games are moving towards subscription models.

Or, it has to be so cheap to develop with high potential returns, like Angry Birds, that it gets done and moving fast enough to be branded.

By the way, for educational content, one way to make money is to charge to certify people as trainers of the techniques. Shovels to the miners, as it were. There are plenty of would-be glam photogs who might pay real money to learn at the feet of a master for two, three weeks. Maybe run classes on an exclusive and selective basis, four, five people at a time. For golf schools that can hit $1,500 per day. I don't know what photogs would pay. Or, shall we say, would-be photogs. Is it worth what your body cost to learn how to use it, or more?


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saturnin
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Jan 09, 2012 00:35 |  #55
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^ all very valid points added to this conversation.

There are ways many ways to still make money, regardless of pirating or not. We are lead to believe that pirating is so huge etc.. but you have to keep in mind how many ppl live on this planet and how many ppl buy things. Like said many times over in this thread, if you have a good product and if its marketed, priced well, it will sell and do well.

One of the main issues at hand is this, most photographers/artists are not business people. And most business people are not photographers/artists. There are of course exceptions and sometimes you get a business person who can produce good art and does well with marketing, or a mediocre artist who also does well. Then when we see this mediocre artist do well, we question it - "how did he get so famous" we are jealous. But i can do better art and look at me i have to have a crappy job, hahahah.

anyway...

thats that


In order to succeed is to understand both and or pay someone to do it for you :)


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Ledrak
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Jan 09, 2012 18:04 as a reply to  @ saturnin's post |  #56

J. Cole... it seems like you're still not quite getting what everyone is trying to get across to you. And this should go for everyone who thinks similarly.

You may be able to give a seminar and charge people $100 to attend and get invaluable, personal instruction from your amazing photography skills... and they may line up in droves for that opportunity and genuinely feel that it is worth every penny of the $100 fee.

But the idea that you can put that same seminar on DVD and sell it for at or near the same price, simply because you (the photographer) feel the content is worth every penny and then some, is just not viable in the modern market we live in today. A dvd is a dvd, is a DVD.... It doesn't really matter what content you have on it (unless it's some top secret info that people would pay millions for; in which case you'd have to worry about people killing you to steal it) you simply can't expect to sell it for more than a reasonable standard dvd price and have people buy it. That's just the way it is.




  
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S.Horton
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Jan 09, 2012 18:13 |  #57

saturnin wrote in post #13671752 (external link)
^ all very valid points added to this conversation.

There are ways many ways to still make money, regardless of pirating or not. We are lead to believe that pirating is so huge etc.. but you have to keep in mind how many ppl live on this planet and how many ppl buy things. Like said many times over in this thread, if you have a good product and if its marketed, priced well, it will sell and do well.

One of the main issues at hand is this, most photographers/artists are not business people. And most business people are not photographers/artists. There are of course exceptions and sometimes you get a business person who can produce good art and does well with marketing, or a mediocre artist who also does well. Then when we see this mediocre artist do well, we question it - "how did he get so famous" we are jealous. But i can do better art and look at me i have to have a crappy job, hahahah.

anyway...

thats that


In order to succeed is to understand both and or pay someone to do it for you :)

Connections and timing matter more than product, place, price, promotion and potential combined.


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S.Horton
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Jan 09, 2012 18:17 |  #58

Ledrak wrote in post #13675944 (external link)
J. Cole... it seems like you're still not quite getting what everyone is trying to get across to you. And this should go for everyone who thinks similarly.

You may be able to give a seminar and charge people $100 to attend and get invaluable, personal instruction from your amazing photography skills... and they may line up in droves for that opportunity and genuinely feel that it is worth every penny of the $100 fee.

But the idea that you can put that same seminar on DVD and sell it for at or near the same price, simply because you (the photographer) feel the content is worth every penny and then some, is just not viable in the modern market we live in today. A dvd is a dvd, is a DVD.... It doesn't really matter what content you have on it (unless it's some top secret info that people would pay millions for; in which case you'd have to worry about people killing you to steal it) you simply can't expect to sell it for more than a reasonable standard dvd price and have people buy it. That's just the way it is.

I disagree. He's made a name, and a reputation by publishing. He might be able to now sell his time for 3-400 per day per attendee for three day courses with four or five per class. Think cool studio, supplied models, lesson plans, hotel extra, of course.

Self promotion pays if you can convert it into a niche personal service.

I have no evidence it would work. I'm not in the photography business. I do know it works with oher indivual or position skill camps. Golf, volleyball, hockey, LAX, gymnastics, swimming..... Why not G&N photography?

And, why not the OP? Look at Ken Rock.ell, and I think OP has more going for him than that character.


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Ledrak
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Jan 09, 2012 18:37 |  #59

S.Horton wrote in post #13676000 (external link)
I disagree. He's made a name, and a reputation by publishing. He might be able to now sell his time for 3-400 per day per attendee for three day courses with four or five per class. Think cool studio, supplied models, lesson plans, hotel extra, of course.

Self promotion pays if you can convert it into a niche personal service.

I have no evidence it would work. I'm not in the photography business. I do know it works with oher indivual or position skill camps. Golf, volleyball, hockey, LAX, gymnastics, swimming..... Why not G&N photography?

And, why not the OP? Look at Ken Rock.ell, and I think OP has more going for him than that character.

Yeah, for a class or seminar of course. But not for a dvd. We're talking about dvd sales here. You'd have to be a hard core fanatic to pay 300-400 dollars for a dvd set that covers a 3 day course.




  
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n0w0rries
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Jan 12, 2012 09:47 |  #60

Lots of good, FREE info in this thread! Someone should put it all on DVD and sell it!

I'm sure there's plenty of media consultants that Jason could pay to come up with a better way to market his materials.


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