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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 11 Jan 2012 (Wednesday) 12:46
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Trying to make a decision on 70-200 f 2.8

 
Nick5
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Jan 12, 2012 08:42 |  #16

For me, I would buy the best available option, the 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II.
It is a new lens compared to a used lens. Warranty etc.
Having IS does make a difference. You always have it if needed.
Canon really did their homework on the upgrade of this lens which the original was no slouch.
It really is worth the extra money and time needed to save for this beauty.


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jakefreese
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Jan 12, 2012 09:52 |  #17

It will be early summer before I upgrade the body, but I am thinking I could buy a mk I non IS now. Seems like they go for $800 on ebay. Im trying to think about is $400 more for the new one worth it since I would have the warranty...I have bought most of my gear from BH. I did see this morning on BH that I can get a new 7D for slightly more than a used one.


7D, 70-200L 2.8 IS II, some rocks and hammers...
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bpark42
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Jan 12, 2012 09:56 |  #18

jakefreese wrote in post #13690954 (external link)
hmmmm I think that is the route I will go. KEH has some 7D's used for $1200, If I got the lens for a $1000, sold my 40d for $ ??? Then in a few years I could get a MK2 IS

This is a good plan. You will definitely get better results in indoor arenas by going the 7d route. In addition to the better high ISO performance you are also getting much better autofocus performance.

Keep a monopod on hand in case you end up shooting at the long end with marginal shutter speeds (almost a guarantee).




  
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Snydremark
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Jan 12, 2012 10:15 |  #19

bpark42 wrote in post #13691626 (external link)
...

Keep a monopod on hand in case you end up shooting at the long end with marginal shutter speeds (almost a guarantee).

This right here is why I would argue against the non-IS versions for this usage. Even monopods may not be viable in some arenas, and then you're kinda SOL when the shutter speeds drop...


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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bpark42
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Jan 12, 2012 10:28 |  #20

Snydremark wrote in post #13691751 (external link)
This right here is why I would argue against the non-IS versions for this usage. Even monopods may not be viable in some arenas, and then you're kinda SOL when the shutter speeds drop...

I'm not sure what you mean by "viable" here. If you mean very low shutter speeds it won't really matter since you won't be able to stop any motion at that point anyhow. If you mean "not allowed" I suppose this is possible, but I can't recall a show where I was not permitted to use one, including national level events.

I agree that the IS version of the lens is preferable to the non-IS, but given the choice between a 40D + 70-200IS vs. 7D + 70-200non-IS I would take the 7D/non-IS combo every time. The extra high ISO capabilities will be far more useful than the IS for indoor shows.




  
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Snydremark
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Jan 12, 2012 10:55 |  #21

bpark42 wrote in post #13691812 (external link)
I'm not sure what you mean by "viable" here. If you mean very low shutter speeds it won't really matter since you won't be able to stop any motion at that point anyhow. If you mean "not allowed" I suppose this is possible, but I can't recall a show where I was not permitted to use one, including national level events.

I agree that the IS version of the lens is preferable to the non-IS, but given the choice between a 40D + 70-200IS vs. 7D + 70-200non-IS I would take the 7D/non-IS combo every time. The extra high ISO capabilities will be far more useful than the IS for indoor shows.

Yes, I meant not allowed; however, that was more of a general caution about arenas and other large, public gathering spaces. It sounds like you've got some experience with the horse arenas and that might not be as much of a concern.

As far as the combo question, it would depend. If you are able to maintain shutter up to 1/160, I would actually prefer the non-IS on the 40D than the 7D. The 7 is SO finicky about camera shake at telephoto lengths that below 1/320 you'd see less shake in the 40 using the non-IS. That was my biggest adjustment when I upgraded; caring a bit more about keeping those speeds up, even with IS...

Where do shutter speeds max out, in this sort of lighting, with the 40D and at what ISO/apertures?


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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bpark42
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Jan 12, 2012 11:16 |  #22

Snydremark wrote in post #13691971 (external link)
As far as the combo question, it would depend. If you are able to maintain shutter up to 1/160, I would actually prefer the non-IS on the 40D than the 7D. The 7 is SO finicky about camera shake at telephoto lengths that below 1/320 you'd see less shake in the 40 using the non-IS. That was my biggest adjustment when I upgraded; caring a bit more about keeping those speeds up, even with IS...

This shouldn't be much of an issue if you are targeting equal output size.

Snydremark wrote in post #13691971 (external link)
Where do shutter speeds max out, in this sort of lighting, with the 40D and at what ISO/apertures?

I would have to run some stats on my old shots, but in a typical local arena, 1/160(ish), f2.8, ISO 3200 is often the best you can hope for. It may even be optimistic. With an f2.8 lens, the 40D's high ISO capabilities really don't cut it in most cases. I often had trouble getting enough shutter speed with ISO max'ed out on the 40D with the 85/1.8 or 135/2.




  
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Snydremark
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Jan 12, 2012 11:59 |  #23

bpark42 wrote in post #13692085 (external link)
This shouldn't be much of an issue if you are targeting equal output size.



I would have to run some stats on my old shots, but in a typical local arena, 1/160(ish), f2.8, ISO 3200 is often the best you can hope for. It may even be optimistic. With an f2.8 lens, the 40D's high ISO capabilities really don't cut it in most cases. I often had trouble getting enough shutter speed with ISO max'ed out on the 40D with the 85/1.8 or 135/2.

From my experience switching from the 40D to the 7D, you won't see great results with the 7D at those settings without IS...regardless of whether you're managing to stop your subject acceptably or not, you'll see too much camera shake at 1/160 and below with a non-IS lens at 200mm or above. YMMV, though.

It's not ideal to have to shell out extra dollars for something like IS, but sometimes the compromise wind's up not being useful either. Up to the OP which way to go, really.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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palmor
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Jan 12, 2012 12:39 |  #24

Snydremark wrote in post #13692328 (external link)
From my experience switching from the 40D to the 7D, you won't see great results with the 7D at those settings without IS...regardless of whether you're managing to stop your subject acceptably or not, you'll see too much camera shake at 1/160 and below with a non-IS lens at 200mm or above. YMMV, though.

It's not ideal to have to shell out extra dollars for something like IS, but sometimes the compromise wind's up not being useful either. Up to the OP which way to go, really.

I think those settings are irrelevant for the OP. There is no way you are going to stop action at 1/160th... 1/500th is the absolute minimum and a 1/640th is the lowest preferred value IMO.


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Snydremark
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Jan 12, 2012 13:53 |  #25

palmor wrote in post #13692542 (external link)
I think those settings are irrelevant for the OP. There is no way you are going to stop action at 1/160th... 1/500th is the absolute minimum and a 1/640th is the lowest preferred value IMO.

If 1/500 is the minimum that would work, and if bpark42's numbers are correct, then there isn't really a good solution short of a 1D series with ISO 12800....which I really don't believe is the case here. Even at slower shutter speeds, a photog can pan with the subject and still get a good, clear shot if they are stable enough. So, 1/160th, panning ought to be perfectly doable, with some practice.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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palmor
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Jan 12, 2012 14:00 |  #26

Snydremark wrote in post #13692971 (external link)
If 1/500 is the minimum that would work, and if bpark42's numbers are correct, then there isn't really a good solution short of a 1D series with ISO 12800....which I really don't believe is the case here. Even at slower shutter speeds, a photog can pan with the subject and still get a good, clear shot if they are stable enough. So, 1/160th, panning ought to be perfectly doable, with some practice.

Sure, panning would work but I don't think you'd only want to get panning shots. I'm not sure about equestrian but shooting dog agility I wouldn't always have the ability to get in the perfect position to get the focal plane I needed for a panning shot.

The 7d does do ISO12800 and can produce acceptable results as long as you are content with not printing huge.

Anyway, I'm more responding to the OP who said "I usually try to shoot at 1/500 or faster for the general action shots." In this regard the 7d/70-200 NonIS combo would be better then the 40d/70-200IS. The 7d has better high ISO (and a higher ceiling) then the 40d in the end producing a better photo IMO.


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bpark42
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Jan 12, 2012 14:51 |  #27

I pulled up the few pics I had on hand. They were taken in an arena that I would say was somewhat better than average in terms of lighting. I was getting roughly 1/400th, f2, ISO 1600. So in that case at f2.8 ISO 3200-6400 should get you enough shutter speed to stop most action. In dimmer arenas it would likely be necessary to either really push the ISO or to use a faster lens like the 135L (which I recommended earlier in the thread).




  
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Trying to make a decision on 70-200 f 2.8
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