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Thread started 10 Jan 2012 (Tuesday) 09:39
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MarKap77
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Jan 18, 2012 23:24 |  #31

ChasWG wrote in post #13698782 (external link)
It's funny that you said what you did Mike. I had written and then took it off that doing what a lot of people do with these songs is a like like helping to further distribute the song and give it more aire time. For free.

And the problem with your line of thinking is that you didn't ask the author's permission. If the author wanted the "free advertising", then they won't have any problem giving permission. Most people are too lazy to ask, though. Just like Sickone, they think, "I'm doing him a favor. Where's the harm?" The person or person's who can make that call is the author of the work.

Billions of dollars in revenue are lost every year to piracy like this. It's just too bad that the cost of suing and attempting to recover from lowlifes like Sickone, who know they are doing something wrong and do it anyway, is too high. But, it is the world in which we live. Too lazy to do something, steal it. Ethics? No such thing anymore. It's just "all about me and what I want, and the rest of you can just go **** yourselves."


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Jan 19, 2012 01:50 |  #32

MarKap77 wrote in post #13729777 (external link)
And the problem with your line of thinking is that you didn't ask the author's permission. If the author wanted the "free advertising", then they won't have any problem giving permission. Most people are too lazy to ask, though. Just like Sickone, they think, "I'm doing him a favor. Where's the harm?" The person or person's who can make that call is the author of the work.

Billions of dollars in revenue are lost every year to piracy like this. It's just too bad that the cost of suing and attempting to recover from lowlifes like Sickone, who know they are doing something wrong and do it anyway, is too high. But, it is the world in which we live. Too lazy to do something, steal it. Ethics? No such thing anymore. It's just "all about me and what I want, and the rest of you can just go **** yourselves."

Your piracy claims are a joke. What revenue is lost? What makes you think the pirates would have paid anyhow? Ethics? What ethics are involved in a monopoly attempt? The media owns the outlets, brainwashes people with conditioned music and expects people to pay for it.

If a radio station plays a song free, and I record it on my recording device, how have I stolen anything? Artists can still make money.... it's called performing...


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Sickone
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Jan 19, 2012 02:05 |  #33

MarKap77 wrote in post #13729777 (external link)
And the problem with your line of thinking is that you didn't ask the author's permission. If the author wanted the "free advertising", then they won't have any problem giving permission. Most people are too lazy to ask, though. Just like Sickone, they think, "I'm doing him a favor. Where's the harm?" The person or person's who can make that call is the author of the work.

Billions of dollars in revenue are lost every year to piracy like this. It's just too bad that the cost of suing and attempting to recover from lowlifes like Sickone, who know they are doing something wrong and do it anyway, is too high. But, it is the world in which we live. Too lazy to do something, steal it. Ethics? No such thing anymore. It's just "all about me and what I want, and the rest of you can just go **** yourselves."


Boring :rolleyes:

A question for you, did you pay for the use of the songs in this silly video you put together?

http://www.justin.tv/m​arkap77/b/265732880 (external link)

Elvis, Bryan Adams, Gloria Estefan and a few others, all ripped off in a single video.

Shove your ethics and practice what you preach.




  
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Kento
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Jan 19, 2012 06:43 |  #34

Nooooooo, another copyright debate.


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ChasWG
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Jan 19, 2012 13:57 |  #35

Well this is an important topic. Have any of you heard about what is going on right now and especially yesterday in the US House and/or Senate? PIPA and SOPA are bills that would aim to hand over copyright laws to the entertainment industry (Rupert Murdock), have the US government strictly enforce these new laws and basically change the way the internet is done, at least here in the US. Many of these piracy websites are outside the US boarders and so our laws can't touch them, but if either of these bills were to pass (and it looks right now that they are loosing the battle) the internet could be changed forever. And so people like Kento and Sickone may not be effected by a change here in the US right away, but eventually, what happens here in the US filters its way out to the rest of the world. Remember, it was US citizens and companies that created the darn thing to begin with.

BTW, Mark, that was a truly horrible 17:20 of video! Sickone has a point.


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MarKap77
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Jan 19, 2012 15:43 |  #36

ChasWG wrote in post #13732909 (external link)
BTW, Mark, that was a truly horrible 17:20 of video! Sickone has a point.

Yeah, it was truly horrible video, but it wasn't intended to be "out there". It was a practice broadcast and I was not aware that it was being recorded and retained. I had a need to do a webcast a few weeks after this was done and was trying out different live webcast sites to find the one that worked best. And it wasn't JustinTV. Probably why I didn't even know this was still out there. It has been taken down. Thanks for pointing it out to me, Sickone.


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MarKap77
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Jan 19, 2012 16:01 |  #37

chardog wrote in post #13730231 (external link)
Your piracy claims are a joke. What revenue is lost?

The revenue that would have been earned if someone like Sickone had actually paid the appropriate licensing fee for using the music.

What makes you think the pirates would have paid anyhow?

I don't expect pireates to pay for it, I expect a pirate to steal it. That is why there are laws in effect to prevent stealing intellectual properties such as music, and a remedy in place to deter the stealing.

Ethics? What ethics are involved in a monopoly attempt?

It's a monopoly to own your work product and want to be compensated when someone else uses it?

The media owns the outlets, brainwashes people with conditioned music and expects people to pay for it.

Do you expect your employer to pay you for your work? Or would it be okay if, when payday comes, they just inform you that they aren't going to pay you this week? We all expect to be paid for our work, even musicians, songwriters, video producers, and photographers.

If a radio station plays a song free, and I record it on my recording device, how have I stolen anything?

By virtue of the fact that you recorded it.

Artists can still make money.... it's called performing...

They shouldn't be paid for the sales of their songs? Really?


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Charlie
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Jan 19, 2012 16:34 |  #38

MarKap77 wrote in post #13733640 (external link)
The revenue that would have been earned if someone like Sickone had actually paid the appropriate licensing fee for using the music. I don't expect pireates to pay for it, I expect a pirate to steal it. That is why there are laws in effect to prevent stealing intellectual properties such as music, and a remedy in place to deter the stealing.It's a monopoly to own your work product and want to be compensated when someone else uses it?

You can own your own work, but as soon as I paid for the product, or in this case given free over the radio, anyone should have access to it. It's no different than using a DVR or VCR to record TV shows. You must think those were terrible ideas that totally *steal* from hollywood, even though shows are publicly broadcast-ed. Just like I wouldnt expect privacy in public, dont expect ownership if you give away your product publicly.

MarKap77 wrote in post #13733640 (external link)
Do you expect your employer to pay you for your work? Or would it be okay if, when payday comes, they just inform you that they aren't going to pay you this week? We all expect to be paid for our work, even musicians, songwriters, video producers, and photographers.

Photogs, video producers, ect get paid by producing a product and doing a service, how has that changed. What is preventing a musician from performing locally or doing a tour?

MarKap77 wrote in post #13733640 (external link)
By virtue of the fact that you recorded it.They shouldn't be paid for the sales of their songs? Really?

They can want the sale to happen, but not at the cost of my freedom. Some people may choose for the shiny plastic, but I choose to the digital version I got from my friend or the radio, tough luck.


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gibsonla
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Jan 19, 2012 17:00 |  #39

Not to take one side or the other, but there's so much flawed logic in your post char dog, I don't know where to begin.


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ChasWG
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Jan 19, 2012 17:07 |  #40

MarKap77 wrote in post #13733529 (external link)
Yeah, it was truly horrible video, but it wasn't intended to be "out there". It was a practice broadcast and I was not aware that it was being recorded and retained. I had a need to do a webcast a few weeks after this was done and was trying out different live webcast sites to find the one that worked best. And it wasn't JustinTV. Probably why I didn't even know this was still out there. It has been taken down. Thanks for pointing it out to me, Sickone.

Mark, my point wasn't really to say how horrid that was, it was really to call attention to your hypocrisy. You've been railing against people using other people's songs in their videos, but you too have done it. Whether you took it down or not, a few of us here saw it before you hid it away. That doesn't make you any better than Sickone or anyone else that has used a copy written song in a video they produced.

Isn't the internet wonderful like that? A bit of research and all sorts of crap come up!


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MarKap77
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Jan 19, 2012 20:56 |  #41

ChasWG wrote in post #13733995 (external link)
Mark, my point wasn't really to say how horrid that was, it was really to call attention to your hypocrisy. You've been railing against people using other people's songs in their videos, but you too have done it. Whether you took it down or not, a few of us here saw it before you hid it away. That doesn't make you any better than Sickone or anyone else that has used a copy written song in a video they produced.

Isn't the internet wonderful like that? A bit of research and all sorts of crap come up!

And you missed the point I made that this was not a video meant for distribution, nor even to be recorded and saved. It was a trial run at a live broadcast to enable me to do another broadcast at a later date. I set up a camera in my living room with audio. My bad for not knowing that it was being saved, but it was only a test and not a broadcast nor a "video" of anything other than to know how to do a broadcast.


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ChasWG
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Jan 19, 2012 21:46 |  #42

Split hairs if you want Mark, what's done is done. If you are so perfect and have never pirated any music, ever, then you should have never even thought about using someone else's product. Even for a test.

Oh, and I think you missed a bit of that egg on your face... :rolleyes:

Let's just bury it man. You say one thing, Sickone says another. No one knows what chardog said. And I'm somewhere in the middle. I agree with you somewhat, but a absolute, no tolerance anti-piracy, sue everyone that even thought about downloading something stance is also silly. There has to be a middle ground somewhere.


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Jan 20, 2012 10:46 |  #43

The world is obviously starting to revolve around online video and social networking, you can't possibly expect America's slow ass congress to implement appropriate revision laws at the same pace as video technology is progressing. The laws are so outdated that the large media companies decided to try and take advantage in order to secure more power, SOPA and PIPA anyone??? The same thing happened with your Obamacare. The U.S. had some of the best health care on earth, but because of shotty regulation and law implementation by your states and federal government, people started to take advantage and the health care providers had to start charging higher and higher prices.. which caused a lot of people to lack coverage.

Without anything less than a complete overhaul of the U.S. copyright system i'd expect over 99% of the population will be committing copyright infringement whether they know it or not. Then the U.S. citizens can decide whether they want to lose more freedoms in order to fix the shortcomings of their elected officials(which seems to be the trend now), or start electing people that have a clue what they are doing into office...


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Jan 20, 2012 12:34 as a reply to  @ Kento's post |  #44

I really don't see what's so confusing about copyright law. It's plainly laid out. Fair Use (external link) policy in the U.S. describes in what circumstances what can be used and when. You are allowed to use music, video and writings that are copyrighted as long as it is for personal (home) use. Once it gets put on YouTube you've broken U.S. copyright law (public exhibition). All a copyright holder has to prove is loss of revenue, which is a given if their material is used publicly. If you publicly exhibit someone else's work without paying for limited rights.

You can pay organizations like ASCAP (external link)to use material, go directly to the copyright holder or use one of the popular media vendors found online (stock). It's as simple as that.

When you purchase a song, it does not give you legal rights to that song. It gives you permission to use it on (5) devices you own (personal use). Even education cannot use material any way they want even though Fair Use states that education is exempt. Once a school has a paid event (play or musical for instance) they loose the right to use copyrighted material. That is why many high schools pay company's like ASCAP thousands of dollars a year so kids can use music in their public events.

That said, I think the entertainment industry (organizations) is damned greedy. Even content creators are pissed with them because they get 90% of the profits from artists. The industry profits are going through the roof and study's have proven that the worst common pirates spend more than common people on content. The industry also say's that they are loosing billions every year, but they assume that people will buy pirated material if they could not get it online which is a fallacy.

What I would say is be smart about how you use other people's material. If it's some guy on the internet that created a image/graphic, ask for its use and if they ask for a small fee ($5) just pay them for its use. If its a major creator give them credit and don't place the entirety of their work online - meaning, use only snippets of their music and not at 100% quality. The biggest thing is, do NOT try to make money from said material. That means don't use it for customers to see, for paid work or online where you have paid ads (AdWords for instance).

As for kids, i don't see a problem with them singing to their favorat artists. Some of them are so bad no one but their parants could stand listening to them :lol:

Edit: As a qualifier I pay third party's for use of their material for television and public exhibition. I create content for local and regional TV as well as photography for two news papers and school districts.




  
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Charlie
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Jan 20, 2012 19:58 |  #45

on a similar subject of Megaupload going down, here are some prominent supporters of that site (a pirating site just busted by the DOJ):
http://www.youtube.com …o&feature=playe​r_embedded (external link)

our IP / Copyright laws are a joke


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