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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 22 Jan 2012 (Sunday) 09:10
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Are Amateurs destroying Photography

 
gnirtS
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Jan 23, 2012 15:27 |  #76

dtufino wrote in post #13747535 (external link)
It seems everyone has a DSLR with a KIT lens and consider themselves a "Professional Photographer" but ask them what's the difference between aperture and Shutter speeds they have no clue....

You need to ask yourself, do they have to? If they can get a result at the end that they or a customer likes its all that matters.

Times are moving on. The music industry found that out, the publishing industry is finding that out and so is Photography. There will still be a market for professional photographers but it wont be as easy or as closed as before.
Adapt or die.


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drmaxx
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Jan 23, 2012 15:37 as a reply to  @ gnirtS's post |  #77

I don't quite get the whole discussion: If I am hiring a photographer, then I can make sure that he's capable to deliver the quality I want. I can look at his portfolio, I can talk with references. It's not that I have to hire blindly any goof and hope for the best.

Yes, the hurdle to enter the market is really low nowadays. So what? If you want and need quality then it is not difficult for a customer to check that before you shill out the money or sign a contract. If he doesn't care then the cheapest offer does deserve the job...


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mcluckie
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Jan 23, 2012 15:41 |  #78

gnirtS wrote in post #13755072 (external link)
You need to ask yourself, do they have to? If they can get a result at the end that they or a customer likes its all that matters.

Times are moving on. The music industry found that out, the publishing industry is finding that out and so is Photography. There will still be a market for professional photographers but it wont be as easy or as closed as before.
Adapt or die.

This has nothing to do with changing times. In the past, knowing these things was required to be a photographer. As automatic functions grew, the need for this knowledge diminished. Purely as a technician, that is. Composition is a separate issue that auto modes haven't tackled yet.

However, I believe that a photographer should know these things. A factory worker doesn't need to know how the punch press works, but an artist knows their tools. Getting "what a custy likes" is a horrible goal to set. "Getting what you want" will be difficult (or shallow) if you don't know your tools.


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Bosscat
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Jan 23, 2012 16:32 |  #79

mcluckie wrote in post #13755179 (external link)
This has nothing to do with changing times. In the past, knowing these things was required to be a photographer. As automatic functions grew, the need for this knowledge diminished. Purely as a technician, that is. Composition is a separate issue that auto modes haven't tackled yet.

However, I believe that a photographer should know these things.

Here is a prime example of how and why just cranking a camera onto a program mode doesn't work and despite a flashy looking website, people are getting hosed out of their money.

http://imagefactor.smu​gmug.com …257967&k=M73PZF​x&lb=1&s=O (external link)

These days I swear it is like there is no professionalism left and just people all trying to screw each other out of money.

Honesty.......a thing of the past, thats for sure!


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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tonylong
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Jan 23, 2012 16:44 |  #80

Bosscat wrote in post #13755512 (external link)
Here is a prime example of how and why just cranking a camera onto a program mode doesn't work and despite a flashy looking website, people are getting hosed out of their money.

http://imagefactor.smu​gmug.com …257967&k=M73PZF​x&lb=1&s=O (external link)

These days I swear it is like there is no professionalism left and just people all trying to screw each other out of money.

Honesty.......a thing of the past, thats for sure!

Hmm...I imagine you have a personal reason for singling out that photog for that type of remark, but...I'd personally say that if you have a personal problem with the photog, well, this might not be the place to "air" it??


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nicksan
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Jan 23, 2012 16:57 |  #81

dtufino wrote in post #13747535 (external link)
It seems everyone has a DSLR with a KIT lens and consider themselves a "Professional Photographer" but ask them what's the difference between aperture and Shutter speeds they have no clue....

And you started out how? I know I didn't know aperture from shutter speed when I started out a while ago. Did you not start out knowing nothing about lighting for your portrait work? Didn't you shoot your first wedding not too long ago? So you had to start out somewhere right? I vaguely seem to recall you saying something about how the client was happy so that's all that matters. Isn't that kind of the same type of attitude a lot of these GWCs have?

I was smart enough not to charge people and use them has guinea pigs so I definitely agree with getting better before charging. I made sure I was comfortable with where I was before I began to charge. There are far too many people buying cameras, attending one of those seminars, and becoming a "professional" photographer without putting in the dues.

dtufino wrote in post #13747535 (external link)
Recently, some of my clients have said that my rates are high compared to other Professional Photographer, when in fact my prices are super Low end for portraiture work.... i tell them they get what they pay for....

Do you want these folks as clients? I wouldn't.

dtufino wrote in post #13747535 (external link)
The question is... is photography dying in the professional sense? The only place i see photography live is in Sports Photography... Amateurs don't knwo how to shoot sports... yet.... lol

I don't know if it's dying. I'll say that it's over saturated. I for one am thankful that there's a market for guys like me though. I've entered the game pretty late and recently so I have no complaints. You have to carve out a niche, be selective about clients, and look to constantly improve your business model, marketing and your overall skills. Easier said than done of course but that's all you really can do right?




  
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Bosscat
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Jan 23, 2012 16:58 |  #82

tonylong wrote in post #13755591 (external link)
Hmm...I imagine you have a personal reason for singling out that photog for that type of remark, but...I'd personally say that if you have a personal problem with the photog, well, this might not be the place to "air" it??

I can find you a few others too that do the same thing if you like?

I am just not going to sit here bringing out all kinds of examples, just for giggles, but the fact is, lots of people mask their work with fancy web design, low prices etc etc.

I am sure I could find low end wedding images if I was so inclined.

I had a racer contact me to shoot his wedding that is upcomiing, and I turned it down, as its not my thing, and I even sent him to a guy I would hire if I was getting hitched. But lots of people will take it on, even if they have no clue what they are doing.


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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RandyMN
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Jan 23, 2012 17:07 |  #83

Bosscat wrote in post #13755692 (external link)
I can find you a few others too that do the same thing if you like?

I am just not going to sit here bringing out all kinds of examples, just for giggles,.

You must have lots of free time if that's what you do for giggles.




  
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LongDraw
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Jan 23, 2012 17:08 as a reply to  @ Bosscat's post |  #84

Call yourself whatever you want. Hang a shingle AND try to make a living; the market will decide if you are a "professional"




  
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RandyMN
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Jan 23, 2012 17:16 |  #85

LongDraw wrote in post #13755744 (external link)
Call yourself whatever you want. Hang a shingle AND try to make a living; the market will decide if you are a "professional"

I say just have fun, enjoy what you are doing and if you can make a buck or two while doing so, all the better. If one really wants the headache of becoming professional, hopefully they can do so while still enjoying what they do.

I find no better satisfaction than shooting an event and coming out with something I like! I'll do it for free if the event is a good one for me... If someone wants me to shoot an event that I have already done 100 or more times, then they will pay for my skills and time or I'll be out shooting birds. But I will be happy doing so...




  
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Bosscat
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Jan 23, 2012 17:19 |  #86

TooManyShots wrote in post #13755780 (external link)
Hmmm....it appears the race (the link you provided) only has 2 cars. All I am seeing is number 11 and 19. :)

It is a race team, I happen to know one of the teams sponsors, and the link for it pops on on my facebook now and then because of that sponsor.

The fact is that this team was charged for images like this. How does that make a race team appear to a potential sponsor, when it looks like they don't care enough for food photography?


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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TooManyShots
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Jan 23, 2012 17:20 |  #87
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Bosscat wrote in post #13755804 (external link)
It is a race team, I happen to know one of the teams sponsors, and the link for it pops on on my facebook now and then because of that sponsor.

The fact is that this team was charged for images like this. How does that make a race team appear to a potential sponsor, when it looks like they don't care enough for food photography?


I eventually figured that out. Well, sprint car racing isn't my thing. :)


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TooManyShots
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Jan 23, 2012 17:31 |  #88
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Bosscat wrote in post #13755804 (external link)
It is a race team, I happen to know one of the teams sponsors, and the link for it pops on on my facebook now and then because of that sponsor.

The fact is that this team was charged for images like this. How does that make a race team appear to a potential sponsor, when it looks like they don't care enough for food photography?


FYI, for low level sport photography, it is more important you are persistent with your coverage. These events do not normally attract a lot of media attentions. I just realized that the photog didn't get the pro account from Smugmug because his clients can't make purchases over the site...I don't know how any money is made here....


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Bosscat
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Jan 23, 2012 17:46 |  #89

TooManyShots wrote in post #13755875 (external link)
FYI, for low level sport photography, it is more important you are persistent with your coverage. These events do not normally attract a lot of media attentions. I just realized that the photog didn't get the pro account from Smugmug because his clients can't make purchases over the site...I don't know how any money is made here....

I think they sell in person or by mail based on the homepage, and they sell at really low prices too.


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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kfreels
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Jan 24, 2012 00:14 as a reply to  @ Bosscat's post |  #90

http://youarenotaphoto​grapher.com/ (external link)


I am serious....and don't call me Shirley.
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