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Thread started 24 Jan 2012 (Tuesday) 18:21
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7D worth it for photography only?

 
forestmat
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Jan 25, 2012 05:09 |  #31

pxchoi wrote in post #13764670 (external link)
I've had my 7D since its release and in the big picture it certainly gives you the most bang for your buck. Year after year it continues to fulfill my growing needs and it doesn't disappoint.

However, I think that you should get the best thing that you can afford without having to skimp on a lens. That was my mistake in the past. If you can live without some of the features, you could get a 60D +15-85 for around the same price as a 7D with a kit lens - Just to put things in perspective.

I went from a very happy T1i user to a disappointed 7D user... And it wasn't until I got a solid lens that I realized the 7D's potential.

I think you nailed it with your answer - and totally agree that the 7D deserves/demands a decent lens to get the best out of it.


Canon EOS 7D - Canon G10 - EF 70-200mm F/4L - EF 85mm F/1.8 - Canon 50mm F/1.4

  
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modchild
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Jan 25, 2012 06:12 |  #32

Take everything that make it the 7D away and you might as well get a point and shoot or a box brownie. Put all those things back into the mix and you've got yourself one hell of a camera. Apart from the AF it's not as good as the 5D2 which has the 7D beat on IQ and low light by quite a distance.
I've got a 7D and a 5D2 and between them they do everything I want with very good output.


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TooManyShots
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Jan 25, 2012 08:41 as a reply to  @ post 13762806 |  #33
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I think the 7D is like a Ford, not Ferrari. A Ford versus a bike. Comparing the 7d to a 1dmarkIII is like a Porsche to a Ford. :)


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Maxxum5
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Jan 25, 2012 08:47 |  #34

So, with several users mentioning the perks of the 7D, if one was to remove the HD video capabilities alone found in the 7D, does the 7D still emerge victorious over models such as the 60D?




  
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kfreels
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Jan 25, 2012 10:17 as a reply to  @ Maxxum5's post |  #35

I really wish I knew what you were after here. The 7D's feature set regarding video is about the same as the 60D. The 60D has an articulating screen that some like. What separates the two are the ergonomics, fps, AF features, and custom functions/buttons. On the 7D you can customize which buttons do what. You have some extra AF capabilities. You can link your AF point to the camera orientation. You can create multiple complete camera configurations and select them from the dial. Those are the features the 7D has that the 60D doesn't that you are paying for. If you don't need those features, then a 60D is a terrific camera. It uses nearly the same sensor. Other than the shots you can get with the advanced AF and 8fps that you might miss with the 60D, there is no image you can take with the 7D that you can't get with the 60D or even a T2i.


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Madweasel
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Jan 25, 2012 10:38 |  #36

kfreels is bang on - the 7D won't get you a picture that any of the other current Canon DSLRs couldn't. All the crop bodies except the 1100D are now on 18MP, and go to ISO 12800 (I think). Eight fps doesn't guarantee catching the "decisive moment". While the current lower bodies do not have a magnesium shell, I've yet to hear of the polycarbonate bodies breaking up, so there's not as much to gain there as some would like to think. It's simply a more versatile tool; more configurable, with more options, to put the more experienced user in a better level of control of the system, particularly thinking of the AF here.

I think this is why some people end up feeling disappointed, because if you just pick one up and expect it to give you better photos, it won't. It's like another step on from the difference between P&S and a basic DSLR - some people are disappointed there because what their P&S did for them automatically they now have to think more about, and if they don't really understand what they're doing they might well conclude that the P&S was better. It may sound condescending, for which I apologise, but I honestly think it's true that if you don't know why you would need a 7D, then you don't need a 7D.


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amfoto1
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Jan 25, 2012 12:03 |  #37

The main differences with 7D are that it's designed from the ground up to be a more pro-oreinted camera... capable of action/sports, increased durability and sealing, customizeability. It's sort of a "1D series Lite" and the most pro-oriented APS-C/1.6X DSLR Canon has produced so far. In some ways it's more capable, if you actually need those capablities, but those also demand more experience and user input all the way from camera setup prior to taking the shot through image processing in post-production.

The T3i, T2i, 60D use essentially the same sensor and processing as 7D (which has dual processors and a discrete AF chip, to better handle speed and the fancier AF system) so have virtually identical image quality potential.

50D is only slightly behind (15MP vs 18MP, one stop lower ISO, no video capabilities), but many consider it superior in build (magnesium shell) and perhaps a few key features (focus Micro Adjust).

For video, the T3i, T2i and 60D might be slightly superior to 7D... they are newer cameras incorporating a few more video related features, including articulated LCD monitors on two of them. I don't shoot video with my DSLRs, so really am not able to elaborate.... just seem to recall seeing a few things mentioned that there were some video related tweaks in the newer models.

Biggest consideration is probably price.... If the additional features of 7D aren't useful to a shooter, they are paying extra for them needlessly and wasting money that might better be used for an add'l lens or other accessory.

The 7D's AF system is what everyone goes gaga over. And it can be quite useful for particular situations... when it's used right it can make the difference getting the shot or not. But for 95% of shooting, the simpler system of 60D and 50D is almost equally fast and accurate. I have been using a pair of 7D for a couple years now and can nail focus with them probably 96 or 97 out of every 100 shots. With three 50D that I used prior, it was more like 94 to 96 out of every 100 shots. In both cases, some of the missed focus shots were "user error", I'm sure... some were camera-related. So maybe some of the difference is the additional years of practice and experience that the user has gotten under his belt.

I don't use, but wouldn't expect as good AF performance out of the T3i, T2i... They have nine AF points, same as the 60D and 50D, but only the center point is "cross type" on the Rebel/xxxD series... All nine are "cross type" on the 40, 50, 60D. Of course, 7D has 19 points... all "cross type", so offers a bit more potential to select precise point of focus when framing the image (possibly less image cropping needed to accomodate AF point placements and limitations).

7D viewfinder is 100%... one of the biggest and brightest to date on a cropper. But 60D and 50D are pretty darned good, too. T3i and T2i are a bit smaller and slightly less bright, the Rebel/xxxD use a smaller, lighter, cheaper penta mirror instead of a true pentaprism that the more upgrade models use.

There are a number of cool, configurable focus modes on 7D.... a lot more than on the other cameras. When you know how to use these, they can be great. When used wrong, they can cause all sorts of problems (search for "7D Help!" posts here on POTN).

Sure, a magnesium body shell feels good (7D, 50D)... but it's really hard to say if it's any more durable than the more polycarbonate (aka plastic) shells of the other cameras. Metal dents. Plastic can take a pretty hard knock and bounce back, not show any damage at all (Canon lens hoods are pretty tough, for example). On the other hand, what really matters besides appearances is the mechanisms and electronics underneath the body shell... and a polycarbonate shell might hide some internal damage that a dented metal shell would make more obvious.

Internally, 7D, 60D and 50D all use a metal chassis. The Rebel/xxxD models, not so much.

7D's shutter is rated for an estimated 150,000 clicks (same as 5DII). 40, 50, 60D are rated 100K. Rebel/xxxD are rated around 75K. (1D series are currently rated 300K and the new 1DX coming this Spring is getting a new lightweight, carbon fiber reinforced polycarbonate shutter that's rated to 400K.) These are all just estimates, but give some idea of the various models anticipated durability.

7D, 50D, 60D all have 1/8000 top shutter speed and 1/250 flash sync. The Rebel/xxxD models have 1/4000 and 1/200, respecitively.

7D has about the smallest (most precise) Spot Metering of any current Canon DSLR. Only the 5DII offers slightly smaller.

But in the end, it still comes down to what you really need. All the current models are very capable of taking great shots. If you want a travel camera, one of the smaller Rebel/xxxD might be ideal for their smaller size and lighter weight. If you have big hands the larger 60D might be more comfortable, though it's still reasonably light (thanks to polycarbonates). If you want the more full size model and metal shell and can live with one stop lower ISO and no video, 50D might be a great choice, though it's discontinued and rarely seen new now.

The "lesser" cameras have more automation and support for less experienced users... and are simpler to use.

If you have plenty of budget, aren't limiting your lenses etc. to get it, don't mind the add'l weight and necessary user input, are willing to learn to deal with the greater complexity, and actually need and will use the action/sports abilities of 7D, it might be perfect for you and worth the extra expense. Of course, likely there will be a 7D Mark II within the year, maybe a little longer... Which of course will be even more perfect ;)


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JuliusUpNorth
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Jan 25, 2012 17:31 |  #38

Was tempted to switch but ultimately am very happy with my 50D. Not sure I need all the bells and whistles.

Julius




  
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Maxxum5
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Jan 25, 2012 17:42 |  #39

Thank you for the extensive input to this thread amphoto1. Very well said. After reading all of that, I think for my situation, I am sold on the 7D. I wonder what the OP will feel.




  
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themadman
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Jan 25, 2012 17:49 |  #40

gunjanx wrote in post #13762493 (external link)
Lets keep Ergonomics, Mega pixel, HD video, 8 frames/sec and Magnesium Alloy body aside..

Is 7D really worth it for photography focused crowd? I mean if we compare core and pure photography features with 40D or 50D, does 7D win on big? Or even when compared to T2i, does it win big?

Would you be ok to have 40D or 50D rather than 7D for pure photography needs? If not, why would you go for 7D?

Umm... why does the "photography focused crowd" not care about ergonomics, resolution, ability to shoot at high rates, and a strong body?

I guess ignoring all that... 19 cross type af, different af grouping, orientation linked af, and af custom settings. Oh, better high ISO as well.

Veemac wrote in post #13764393 (external link)
I've never found the 50D's AF to be particularly lacking for action/sports:

So people who pay more for a 1D4 must be out of their minds :p

TooManyShots wrote in post #13765484 (external link)
I think the 7D is like a Ford, not Ferrari. A Ford versus a bike. Comparing the 7d to a 1dmarkIII is like a Porsche to a Ford. :)

Yep, a Ford GT to a Porsche Cayman :p


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Jan 25, 2012 18:02 |  #41

gunjanx wrote in post #13762611 (external link)
Ergonomics - I did not find much difference between 7D and 50D or 40D on this aspect
Magnesium Alloy - Even 50D has it
Mega Pixel - 18 vs 15 of 50D

This leaves us HD video and 8/sec. That's it?

Btw, you cannot compare bike and ferrari they are not apple vs apple.!

It is obvious you are not very educated on what the 7D brings to the table over the 50D.

- Ergonomics are indeed much better with more dedicated function buttons, with customizations on many of those, including the Mfn and Live View button/movie mode, and On/Off button relocated as well.

- Can use IR remotes

- Better build and better weather seals

- Q menu is very nice

- Better ISO performance with a higher native ISO

- 100% viewfinder

- Wireless flash control

- Better LCD

- 19 AF points

- 1D style AF modes, including spot AF and zone AF that even the 1D series currently doesn't have

- Newer dual Digic processors

- Modern IFCL 63 zone metering system

- Longer battery life

- Orientation linked AF point

- More CF functions to help control AF, etc

- Other things I have since forgotten... these are from memory at this point, plus the 3 you mention (more resolution, 8fps, and movie mode)


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artyman
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Jan 25, 2012 18:22 |  #42

I was planning on getting a 50D, then they announced the 7D, after looking at the specs it was a no brainer to get the 7D despite the extra cost a move I don't regret in the slightest.


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Veemac
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Jan 25, 2012 20:29 |  #43

themadman wrote in post #13768291 (external link)
...So people who pay more for a 1D4 must be out of their minds :p...

Note that I said *I've* never found the 50's AF to be particularly lacking for action/sports. I never said anything about anybody else's situation. Since the OP never mentioned anything about the 1D4, I'm not sure how it even plays into this conversation. It's in a slightly different price range than the T2i/40/50/7D the OP asked about.


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Jan 26, 2012 01:32 |  #44

jhayesvw wrote in post #13762739 (external link)
exactly.
the 7d will produce better IQ if youre shooting fast action or wildlife because the biggest sensor out there wont make up for missed focus. The AF of the 7d is great. I wish I had one sometimes, but the 60d does well so I dont feel bad most of the time.

Or shooting in low light and that...

My 7D is loads better than the old 30D in terms of AF speed and accuracy, Especially in low light, The Rebels use the same AF system as my old 30D, the 40D/50D/60D have a slightly evolved version of it

The 19 points give you more choice in composition without having to risk focus-recompose, The larger brighter viewfinder in the 7D makes composition easier and faster with slower lenses, The built in focus microadjustment (which is missing on the Rebels and 60D, But not on the 50D..and i think the 40D had it as well) is also a handy thing if you get a lens thats a hair out of spec and need to fix it

IQ wise its a bit better than a 50D or 40D, specially at high ISO, But up against any of the more recent crop DSLRs using the 18mp sensor the IQ will be the same...

The meter is better too, Far more accurate and more importantly, reliable compared to the 30D's meter which seemed to be one way one moment and then another the next to me...

In fact even though i dropped shooting birds/wildlife from my general subjects, i wouldnt dump the 7D because the AF system is very very good and i really dont want to go back to only 9 points...


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Snydremark
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Jan 26, 2012 01:47 |  #45

Yes it is. I upgraded to it from the 40D, and it's a totally different beast; and I never shoot video.

The AF system is a world apart and usable higher ISOs let me get much better shots of the local birds than the 40D did in poor conditions (which we get a lot in the PNW).


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