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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 25 Jan 2012 (Wednesday) 23:55
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7d+(70-200is2.8II+2XII)= my question.

 
MOkoFOko
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Jan 26, 2012 01:50 |  #16

Overread wrote in post #13770487 (external link)
Aye very true, though I have to say that thus far you're the only person I've noticed to get this level of performance with the combo. I think it a very bad case of bad luck resulting from the camera + TC + lens having some kind of calibration tolerance issue (which with photography gear is always a risk with any purchase - though in general most gear is ok - the 100-400mm being one of the oft quoted riskier examples)


Edit - now two people ;)

I say it's a problem with 2x TC's in general, rather than some lens-specific issue. When I stick a 2x II on my 300 2.8 IS, image quality pretty much falls off a cliff (in relative terms; I pixel peep)--it's still quite spectacular with a 1.4x II. The effect is more pronounced (rather, easier to detect) on my 70-200 II

I've also got Kenko MC4 DGX 2x and a Kenko Pro300 DGX 2x, and I see about the same performance--so I can't claim that my Canon 2x II is just an aberration/dud adapter.

I avoid using my 2x TCs whenever possible--moreso because of the poor AF than the loss of IQ. Also, you can't track BIF properly with a 70-200 II w/2x TC :) That killed the combination for me.


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Snydremark
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Jan 26, 2012 01:52 |  #17

MOkoFOko wrote in post #13770480 (external link)
Then I must suffer from that same affliction, because my 50-500 OS @ 400mm beats it handily--and the 50-500 OS is NOT better than a good 100-400L @ 400mm.

My 70-200 II is also quite spectacular without the 2x TC.

Overread wrote in post #13770487 (external link)
...


Edit - now two people ;)

YAY! Not just me, anymore :p


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Overread
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Jan 26, 2012 01:53 |  #18

2*TCs will make a noticeable hit to image quality, though with options like the 300mm f2.8 they should still be delivering sharp shots - certainly very usable results once sharpened and printed/processed for the net.

I know Kenko make some upper level and lower level teleconverters - though I'm not sure which models are which in their line.


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MOkoFOko
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Jan 26, 2012 01:56 |  #19

Overread wrote in post #13770509 (external link)
2*TCs will make a noticeable hit to image quality, though with options like the 300mm f2.8 they should still be delivering sharp shots - certainly very usable results once sharpened and printed/processed for the net.

I know Kenko make some upper level and lower level teleconverters - though I'm not sure which models are which in their line.

The MC4s have less glass and are reported to be sharper than just about any TC out there, the Canons included. No coatings however, so you can guess what they suffer from. The Pro300's are Kenkos top-line of TCs. They are essentially Canon-TC equivalents. The thing that makes the Kenkos worth owning is the flexibility gained--you can use with any non-EF-S lenses, and stack to your hearts content.


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bohdank
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Jan 26, 2012 06:44 |  #20

When I had a 7D, I tried to shoot a snowboarding event with the 70-200MKII and the Kenko 1.4x DG. I quickly gave up that idea because it had a significant impact on focus speed (nothing was in focus). Once I removed the TC, all was fine. So, aside from IQ, you should consider whether it will focus well enough for what you plan on shooting.

I did try the combo prior to the shoot for foxus accuracy in One Shot to make sure it didn;t need any MA.


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Jan 26, 2012 10:23 |  #21

I also was not impressed with the Image Quality of my 70-200mm 2.8 IS II and 2x III combo. I found the results at 400mm were similar to just cropping my 200mm images. I sold the 2x III and bought a 1.4x II which does give very good results at 280mm.

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msowsun
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Jan 26, 2012 10:48 |  #22

Sometimes the 400mm 2x III images were sharper than the 200mm crops, but not enough for me to justify the $500 price tag.

(more crops)

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gabebalazs
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Jan 26, 2012 10:53 |  #23

MOkoFOko wrote in post #13770518 (external link)
The MC4s have less glass and are reported to be sharper than just about any TC out there, the Canons included. No coatings however, so you can guess what they suffer from. The Pro300's are Kenkos top-line of TCs. They are essentially Canon-TC equivalents. The thing that makes the Kenkos worth owning is the flexibility gained--you can use with any non-EF-S lenses, and stack to your hearts content.

I've heard it's true with 1.4x TCs (based on Traumflieger's test) but with the 2x my experience is that the MC4 wasn't as sharp as an old MC7 I have. Then the Sigma 2x APO EX DG is a bit sharper than both Kenkos.
The 2x MC4 DGX was returned to Adorama after I tested it and finished 3rd place out of 3 2x TCs I had.


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Jan 26, 2012 11:03 as a reply to  @ msowsun's post |  #24

I've tried the 70-200II+2xII combination on a 60d.Wide open it was at least as good as 3 samples of 100-400 I tried and just a bit softer than my 400 5.6 prime. But this only applies for static or very slow moving subjects as the AF takes a serious hit.Maybe the superior AF of a 7D can give better results.The attached samples are 100% crops from tests i did at home at f8 and wide open(5.6).Sharpness
in my opinion at f8 was totally acceptable. Nevertheless i decided to sell the extender since the 400 prime is giving me better results since it focuses extremely fast and has better microcontrast (feathers of birds etc.)


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MOkoFOko
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Jan 26, 2012 14:50 |  #25

haliapsychologika wrote in post #13772181 (external link)
I've tried the 70-200II+2xII combination on a 60d.Wide open it was at least as good as 3 samples of 100-400 I tried and just a bit softer than my 400 5.6 prime. But this only applies for static or very slow moving subjects as the AF takes a serious hit.Maybe the superior AF of a 7D can give better results.The attached samples are 100% crops from tests i did at home at f8 and wide open(5.6).Sharpness
in my opinion at f8 was totally acceptable. Nevertheless i decided to sell the extender since the 400 prime is giving me better results since it focuses extremely fast and has better microcontrast (feathers of birds etc.)

I would like to see your comparison shots against the 400 5.6L at a distance (such as a tree, or a house, or a squirrel on a branch). MFD shots can be HIGHLY misleading. Unless you got a magical 70-200 II, I find it difficult to accept those results. All of my samples were taken at 400mm at extreme range, and again, it is no contest. I'm going to throw up examples of my own when time permits.

Also, even a good 100-400L should not be only slightly worse than a 400 5.6L (except dead center--the rest is no contest). Something isn't right here.


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haliapsychologika
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Jan 26, 2012 16:39 as a reply to  @ MOkoFOko's post |  #26

These are the only direct comparison shots(100% center crops) I can find right now,shot from the exact same distance(about 75meters).They are both at 5.6, ISO100, 1/1000sec...I agree with you,the prime is better than 70-200+2x (or 100-400), especially in the corners but the difference isn't huge...but when you take into account the quicker AF the 400 5.6 makes a much better option for shooting wildlife and that's exactly the reason I kept it and sold the extender...


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MOkoFOko
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Jan 26, 2012 17:10 |  #27

haliapsychologika wrote in post #13774103 (external link)
These are the only direct comparison shots(100% center crops) I can find right now,shot from the exact same distance(about 75meters).They are both at 5.6, ISO100, 1/1000sec...I agree with you,the prime is better than 70-200+2x (or 100-400), especially in the corners but the difference isn't huge...but when you take into account the quicker AF the 400 5.6 makes a much better option for shooting wildlife and that's exactly the reason I kept it and sold the extender...

Your 70-200 does a touch better than I'd have expected--you'll have to see my comparison shots at 200+ meters. The 70-200 combo is horrible.

I can't reliably track birds in flight with the 70-200 w/2x, even on a good day.


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Perfectly ­ Frank
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Jan 26, 2012 19:27 |  #28

MOkoFOko wrote in post #13770499 (external link)
I've also got Kenko MC4 DGX 2x and a Kenko Pro300 DGX 2x, and I see about the same performance--so I can't claim that my Canon 2x II is just an aberration/dud adapter.

I've used the 70-200 f2.8 IS II with a Kenko Pro300 DGX 2x also.
For me the IQ took too much of a hit. I sold the Kenko.


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MOkoFOko
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Jan 26, 2012 22:14 |  #29

Perfectly Frank wrote in post #13774941 (external link)
I've used the 70-200 f2.8 IS II with a Kenko Pro300 DGX 2x also.
For me the IQ took too much of a hit. I sold the Kenko.

I've done some extensive testing with the pro300 DG 2x, and I've found it to be roughly equal to the Canon 2x II. In fact, the results are nearly identical. I'm assuming that you mean that you did not own both TCs and decided to keep the 2x II in favor of the pro300 2x.


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Jan 26, 2012 22:43 as a reply to  @ MOkoFOko's post |  #30

Again, I'd direct folks here: http://www.birdsasart.​com/bn347.html (external link)

This man is a Canon explorer of light and has worked for canon for years. He doesn't lie,he doesn't use junk. You can see for yourself his images created with the 70-200 2.8 II +2X II.
They are not soft or lacking contrast. I have the combo and have tested it against my 100-400L,the 70-200 +2x is a smidge better,and that's good enough to sell the 100-400. If your images with this combo are soft it's either technique problems or faulty equipment in some way. With a double in focal length,your technique needs to be twice as good for sharp images. Lock it down tight,shoot a static target,if it's not reasonably sharp,it's you or your equipment has issues.




  
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