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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 19 Jan 2012 (Thursday) 13:42
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Bosscat
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Jan 24, 2012 21:39 |  #46

Anyone that ordered prints at your previous prices are gonna wonder what the.......?

Its hard to compete when you are subsidizing your equipment and and travel with discretionary income and a pro is covering that with his prices.

But hey, if it makes ya feel like a man........


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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lankforddl
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Jan 24, 2012 21:48 |  #47

Bosscat wrote in post #13763584 (external link)
Anyone that ordered prints at your previous prices are gonna wonder what the.......?

Its hard to compete when you are subsidizing your equipment and and travel with discretionary income and a pro is covering that with his prices.

But hey, if it makes ya feel like a man........

Ahhh, ya got me... I digress. I'm no match for you.


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GadgetRick
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Jan 25, 2012 06:16 |  #48

Bosscat wrote in post #13762417 (external link)
I know of a guy with a full time job, that will sell you 21 to 30 Digital Photo Files on a CD - $45.00

I had another photographer e-mail me ranting about this guy and the fact that people were telling him that they would buy from this file seller, since it was cheaper and what they perceived a better value then buying his reasonably priced prints.

He and I both know this guys work is pretty poor, but many many people will take 25 average images of themselves for $45 then 2 killer shots for $50 more often then not.

Its perception, that they are getting more for their money.

The iPhone and the internet have helped to make crappy photos acceptable to the masses, like it or not.

So then stop whining about it and deal with it. If you can't compete with a person who (clearly) is inferior to your work then find other customers who see the value in your work, get better at selling the value of your work or find another profession. What do you want people to tell you? This is a capitalist economy. Anyone can sell their products/services for any price they want. That person does not have a sustainable business model unless they get a TON of business.

There will ALWAYS be people who will buy from the lowest bidder regardless of quality. If this is not your target, who cares whether these people would buy from him or not??? I really don't know why you don't understand this...




  
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GadgetRick
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Jan 25, 2012 06:21 |  #49

Rubi Jane wrote in post #13762496 (external link)
Thankfully I take care of my business and I'm doing fine, but please enlighten me on how you feel this "don't need or care to make money because I have a 9-5 job that pays me well" attitude actually helps the industry?

I agree, these part-time peddlers are free to charge what they want, but it's poor business ethic when they don't give a damn. Oh, I forgot, they aren't in business so they don't need to give a damn. What was I thinking?

Where did I say it was helpful to the industry?

My whole point is there isn't anything you can do about people like this and, more importantly, they don't hurt your business unless you're after the people who are only looking for the cheapest price available regardless of quality. Look at any other industry and you'll see the same things. There are always companies who sell on quality (but charge more) and companies who sell on price. This is because there are people who will pay for quality and those who will not (or cannot). Personally, I am willing to pay for quality for certain things but not everything.

I totally understand the frustration, however, I do not understand the animosity towards the people who are, "not charging enough." Besides, who gets to decide how much is enough for them to charge? Who made us the pricing police??? Should we all just change the way our economy works and have the government tell us what the price will be for our work?




  
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GadgetRick
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Jan 25, 2012 06:23 |  #50

Bosscat wrote in post #13763584 (external link)
Anyone that ordered prints at your previous prices are gonna wonder what the.......?

Its hard to compete when you are subsidizing your equipment and and travel with discretionary income and a pro is covering that with his prices.

But hey, if it makes ya feel like a man........

Why is it any of your concern on what people who bought photos from him will think?

If you don't like that he's subsidizing his equipment purchases then go take a second job.




  
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Bosscat
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Jan 25, 2012 07:55 |  #51

GadgetRick wrote in post #13765056 (external link)
So then stop whining about it and deal with it. If you can't compete with a person who (clearly) is inferior to your work then find other customers who see the value in your work, get better at selling the value of your work or find another profession. What do you want people to tell you? This is a capitalist economy. Anyone can sell their products/services for any price they want. That person does not have a sustainable business model unless they get a TON of business.

There will ALWAYS be people who will buy from the lowest bidder regardless of quality. If this is not your target, who cares whether these people would buy from him or not??? I really don't know why you don't understand this...

It may not seem sustainable, but once people like this run everybody off, then its all theirs, as there is no one left to compete with them.

Some of these people just wanna "Be there" as its "Kewl" to show their friends, but the fact is they are the ones that are lowering standards, and screwing up the biz model.

If I had the money to offer stuff like they do, I wouldn't even be there shooting, I'd be doing something else with my time and cameras.


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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GadgetRick
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Jan 25, 2012 08:33 |  #52

Bosscat wrote in post #13765299 (external link)
It may not seem sustainable, but once people like this run everybody off, then its all theirs, as there is no one left to compete with them.

Some of these people just wanna "Be there" as its "Kewl" to show their friends, but the fact is they are the ones that are lowering standards, and screwing up the biz model.

If I had the money to offer stuff like they do, I wouldn't even be there shooting, I'd be doing something else with my time and cameras.

:::sigh:::

I don't think you'll ever get it. You predict gloom and doom yet people have been doing this for YEARS but we still have photogs who make a living doing photography.

You are direct your anger at the wrong thing. It is not up to YOU to determine what someone else should charge for these services. It is up to YOU to handle YOUR business. If you cannot continue to stay in business then it's time to find another profession. But I assure you, it's not because a few people are giving their work away.

Another example is I have done a lot of sports photography. Specifically, I used to do a lot of MMA events. There is NO money in those according to many people. Partially because the fighters are (typically) broke and partially because there are a bunch of people who give away their photos (and there are a LOT of these people--much more than what you're complaining about). Yet, I was able to average (yes, AVERAGE) about $800 per show I show just in sales to fighters, promoters, sponsors, etc. Was I getting rich? Absolutely not. However, people still bought my work even though they could get free photos from other people--some of them sitting right next to me by the cage, btw--because my work was better. So it is, in fact, possible to make money even though people are giving their stuff away.

Stop whining and do something to set yourself apart from those people. It's not their fault you're losing business...




  
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cdifoto
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Jan 25, 2012 23:46 |  #53

People come to me for how I do things, not just the photograph itself. That's hard to project on non-interactive things like sports, but in portraiture where the subject is the client, it's really not difficult...as long as you don't hate people.

If you hate people, well, you're pretty much in the wrong business. You belong with the USPS.


Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it here (external link). Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid! (external link)

  
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GadgetRick
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Jan 26, 2012 07:43 |  #54

cdifoto wrote in post #13770129 (external link)
People come to me for how I do things, not just the photograph itself. That's hard to project on non-interactive things like sports, but in portraiture where the subject is the client, it's really not difficult...as long as you don't hate people.

If you hate people, well, you're pretty much in the wrong business. You belong with the USPS.

Or the DMV...or Walmart...or... ;)




  
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cdifoto
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Jan 26, 2012 08:11 |  #55

GadgetRick wrote in post #13771235 (external link)
Or the DMV...or Walmart...or... ;)

I dunno. I've never really encountered a-holes at Walmart or the DMV like I always see at the PO. Especially that one. She needs a man bad.


Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it here (external link). Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid! (external link)

  
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lankforddl
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Jan 26, 2012 12:50 |  #56

cdifoto wrote in post #13770129 (external link)
People come to me for how I do things, not just the photograph itself. That's hard to project on non-interactive things like sports, but in portraiture where the subject is the client, it's really not difficult...as long as you don't hate people.

If you hate people, well, you're pretty much in the wrong business. You belong with the USPS.

I like this post. Part of my personal attraction to photography is being social, interacting with people. Seeing the smiles on a clients face after they see the results. I've actually had some clients cry when they saw their images for the first time. For good reasons. Lol.


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Concretin ­ Nik
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Jan 26, 2012 13:41 |  #57

There are still unprotected galleries on your site... Yikes.


Knowledge, Talent, Experience, Success. None of these excuse arrogance.

  
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lankforddl
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Jan 26, 2012 14:29 |  #58

Concretin Nik wrote in post #13772984 (external link)
There are still unprotected galleries on your site... Yikes.

The images are encrypted with copyright data. I have a web crawler that I can run to search for my images. I'm not concerned about theft.

Edit: I should clarify. I wouldn't be able to find stolen images that are NOT hosted on a publicly host DNS.


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TroyRaymond
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Jan 26, 2012 18:58 as a reply to  @ lankforddl's post |  #59

Wow, I really like some of the photos in your "Everything Else" gallery. Since you didn't right click protect, and left the original size available that is good enough for an 8x10... Why should I pay the $15 plus shipping when I can just save it and have it printed at Walmart 1-hour for less than $3. Encryption does nothing for that. If they question if I was the photographer, a simple yes would get it by their copyright requirements. Heck, they can even print 24x36 on luster paper now, so why don't I spend the $21 and go big!

I believe this is the 'stolen' spoke of...

BTW, if you have a pro account, Tools/Stats/Photo views/Statistics then the tab "Gallery Details", choose a gallery and you can see how many photos and what sizes have been downloaded.




  
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lankforddl
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Jan 26, 2012 20:08 |  #60

TroyRaymond wrote in post #13774804 (external link)
Wow, I really like some of the photos in your "Everything Else" gallery. Since you didn't right click protect, and left the original size available that is good enough for an 8x10... Why should I pay the $15 plus shipping when I can just save it and have it printed at Walmart 1-hour for less than $3. Encryption does nothing for that. If they question if I was the photographer, a simple yes would get it by their copyright requirements. Heck, they can even print 24x36 on luster paper now, so why don't I spend the $21 and go big!

I believe this is the 'stolen' spoke of...

BTW, if you have a pro account, Tools/Stats/Photo views/Statistics then the tab "Gallery Details", choose a gallery and you can see how many photos and what sizes have been downloaded.

Go for it. I need to test my web crawler anyways.

Edit: Oooo, you're right!! There are tons of images that have been downloaded. This'll be fun tracking them down.


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