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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 07 Feb 2012 (Tuesday) 14:29
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POLL: "Nikon D800 or wait"
Switching now
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12.5%
Waiting for Canon announcement
296
35.7%
Loyal Canon fan for life. :)
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Who's making the switch to Nikon / D800

 
RhysPhotograph.Me
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Feb 13, 2012 04:42 |  #271
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john5189 wrote in post #13877322 (external link)
No they dont.

If you brought updated products out as soon as they were ready you might have a long spell when no new innovation came along.

Whilst Canon's range is selling at an expected rate they wont release a new product that will boost sales. They dont need to. It makes bad commercial sense

When the 5DII sales starts to drop off, then you will get news of the next model.

The sales might now drop of because people might now definitely wait for the upgrade with '99MPix' or whatever feature that will finally allow them to take the good pictures that the present ""sub-standard junk"" has prevented them doing.

Why are you so against progress and improvement, Fred Flintstone?
If you ran Canon, everyone would still be using 10D's because it's "good enough". It can take a good picture, sure it's more difficult, but as long as it's possible, why improve on or add anything to make a photographers life easier?
Or to open up more photographic opportunities that were previously constrained by the limit's of the 10D?


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jthomps123
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Feb 13, 2012 07:55 |  #272

RhysPhotograph.Me wrote in post #13877391 (external link)
Why are you so against progress and improvement, Fred Flintstone?
If you ran Canon, everyone would still be using 10D's because it's "good enough". It can take a good picture, sure it's more difficult, but as long as it's possible, why improve on or add anything to make a photographers life easier?
Or to open up more photographic opportunities that were previously constrained by the limit's of the 10D?

I agree here. Why do so many people get butt-hurt when another brands puts out better products? The 'well it wont make you a better photographer' excuse always comes out... and its plainly bs. If it was only the photographyer that mattered we'd still be using crappy P&S cameras and not wasting our $ on DSLRs.

When Canon came out with bodies with superior video I switched to Canon, now that Nikon bodies are superior in all aspects Im switching back. Not being a brand-whore makes choosing the body that best fits my wants and need really easy.


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john5189
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Feb 13, 2012 09:13 |  #273

RhysPhotograph.Me wrote in post #13877391 (external link)
Why are you so against progress and improvement, Fred Flintstone?
If you ran Canon, everyone would still be using 10D's because it's "good enough". It can take a good picture, sure it's more difficult, but as long as it's possible, why improve on or add anything to make a photographers life easier?
Or to open up more photographic opportunities that were previously constrained by the limit's of the 10D?

There are really only two things that make modern cameras better than the 10D and that would be good high ISO performance and a bigger screen so you can see the image and the histogram easier. (obviously this will be disputed, but I think most other techno improvements dont make much difference to the photo taking process).

I dont think I have ever stated I was against progress, I just dont think the ever increasing pixel count is leading anywhere other than to lots more terrabytes of storage.

I have printed A3 images from a 3MP image which was simply enlarged with PS5 with no pixilation. ( I did tidy some jpeg relics though since it was a jpeg image)

If image recognition software starts to work and auto exposure metering stops being easily fooled then I will immeadiately update my 5dII and 7D. which BTW I got within a year of realease because they were real improvement over what came before.


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RhysPhotograph.Me
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Feb 13, 2012 09:55 |  #274
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john5189 wrote in post #13878157 (external link)
There are really only two things that make modern cameras better than the 10D and that would be good high ISO performance and a bigger screen so you can see the image and the histogram easier. (obviously this will be disputed, but I think most other techno improvements dont make much difference to the photo taking process).

I dont think I have ever stated I was against progress, I just dont think the ever increasing pixel count is leading anywhere other than to lots more terrabytes of storage.

I have printed A3 images from a 3MP image which was simply enlarged with PS5 with no pixilation. ( I did tidy some jpeg relics though since it was a jpeg image)

If image recognition software starts to work and auto exposure metering stops being easily fooled then I will immeadiately update my 5dII and 7D. which BTW I got within a year of realease because they were real improvement over what came before.

You missed off Auto-focus and usable dynamic range and imo ergonomics is another important one.
But as you say, the scene recognition could well be the best big 'real' improvement.


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Shadowblade
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Feb 13, 2012 19:20 |  #275

john5189 wrote in post #13878157 (external link)
There are really only two things that make modern cameras better than the 10D and that would be good high ISO performance and a bigger screen so you can see the image and the histogram easier. (obviously this will be disputed, but I think most other techno improvements dont make much difference to the photo taking process).

I dont think I have ever stated I was against progress, I just dont think the ever increasing pixel count is leading anywhere other than to lots more terrabytes of storage.

I have printed A3 images from a 3MP image which was simply enlarged with PS5 with no pixilation. ( I did tidy some jpeg relics though since it was a jpeg image)

If image recognition software starts to work and auto exposure metering stops being easily fooled then I will immeadiately update my 5dII and 7D. which BTW I got within a year of realease because they were real improvement over what came before.

The increased pixel count is helping a lot of us, particularly landscape and studio shooters.

Smooth interpolation may avoid pixellation, but doesn't add any extra detail. Instead of pixels, you just see blur.

Sure, this may not show up at 'typical viewing distances', but large (1.5m wide and larger) gallery prints are often viewed up close, at 20cm or less, which are much closer than 'typical distances'.




  
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snaphappyphotography
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Feb 14, 2012 00:53 |  #276

My wife and I continue to think about making the switch. Assuming Canon does come out with a true competitor to the D800 we'd still be taking a gamble on the new Canon AF system. At least with the D800 you know you're getting a tried and true AF system capable of shooting in -2 EV. It's highly likely that Canon's new AF system will be superb, but they have such a bad track record. A lot to think about.

PS - a lot of posts recently all over the net bashing the 1DX. I think people are starting to feel the pressure from the fact that this camera is for "everybody" and therefore doesn't meet the specifics needs of anybody. Jack of all trades, master of none, kind of thing. That $6800 price tag isn't helping.


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Feb 14, 2012 07:52 |  #277

snaphappyphotography wrote in post #13894141 (external link)
My wife and I continue to think about making the switch. Assuming Canon does come out with a true competitor to the D800 we'd still be taking a gamble on the new Canon AF system. At least with the D800 you know you're getting a tried and true AF system capable of shooting in -2 EV. It's highly likely that Canon's new AF system will be superb, but they have such a bad track record. A lot to think about.

PS - a lot of posts recently all over the net bashing the 1DX. I think people are starting to feel the pressure from the fact that this camera is for "everybody" and therefore doesn't meet the specifics needs of anybody. Jack of all trades, master of none, kind of thing. That $6800 price tag isn't helping.

I think the 1DX is going to bite Canon in the Arse.


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umphotography
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Feb 14, 2012 08:28 |  #278

AzzKicker wrote in post #13895103 (external link)
I think the 1DX is going to bite Canon in the Arse.


Why ?

Because it doesn't have 36MP's ??

Seriously ???

you don't need a butt load of MP's to make great images. And who ever said studio guys need it is really full of it. Great images are made with lighting, not a camera MP count.


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Village_Idiot
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Feb 14, 2012 09:06 |  #279

umphotography wrote in post #13895229 (external link)
Why ?

Because it doesn't have 36MP's ??

Seriously ???

you don't need a butt load of MP's to make great images. And who ever said studio guys need it is really full of it. Great images are made with lighting, not a camera MP count.

To illustrate to photo noobs that constantly ask, "What should I buy next?" I like to tell them that they could hand me a 300D with a kit lens and a handful of lights and I could make just as good images as they could with a $3000 camera and a $2000 lens.

The reason we spend the crazy amount of money we do on high end cameras and lenses is for the features and that extra bit of perfection in IQ and performance.

My 30D worked just fine and I could even survive on ISO 1600 if I had to, but man is it so much easier shooting in the dark with a 5D MKII.


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umphotography
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Feb 14, 2012 09:23 |  #280

Village_Idiot wrote in post #13895418 (external link)
To illustrate to photo noobs that constantly ask, "What should I buy next?" I like to tell them that they could hand me a 300D with a kit lens and a handful of lights and I could make just as good images as they could with a $3000 camera and a $2000 lens.

The reason we spend the crazy amount of money we do on high end cameras and lenses is for the features and that extra bit of perfection in IQ and performance.

My 30D worked just fine and I could even survive on ISO 1600 if I had to, but man is it so much easier shooting in the dark with a 5D MKII.

Agreed

Its all about IQ and Clean ISO. The high end cameras give you the flexibility to shoot is low or poor light and get clean images with natural ambient. The older cameras cant do that w/o a lot of noise. I have 1D camera bodies for 2 reasons. I want the best IQ and noise performance i can get, I have to have a great AF system that always works, and i want a solid camera body because WE PUT my cameras through hell and back during a wedding season. So thats why i use the cameras that i use. MP count for me is a minimul concern. Most wedding guys love a camera with Less MP's. When you shoot 1000-1500 images a day, speed comes into the equation. I don't need a 36MP file slowing me down when a 10-12MP files does the trick. But again....thats me

All the noobs jumping on the high MP count cameras. The obvious question is why ? Do you really need that much pony for what you are shooting ?

Some of the guys that do,,GREAT,, heres your camera.

You are not going to get any better IQ with the 36mp Nikon than you could get with a 5D2 at 21MP's, or a 1DMKIV at 16.1 MP's,,, and i would also argue the 5D classic with 12MP.s--------all of the cameras with less mp's are capable of making outstanding images that if you put side by side against the D800,,,you would not be able to distinguish which camera took the shot. All those that say they can are fooling themselves.

Its lighting and nothing else......plain and simple


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AzzKicker
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Feb 14, 2012 09:53 |  #281

umphotography wrote in post #13895510 (external link)
all of the cameras with less mp's are capable of making outstanding images that if you put side by side against the D800,,,you would not be able to distinguish which camera took the shot. All those that say they can are fooling themselves.

Mmm maybe with a 20"+ Image you could depending on how good your original image was. Even as a sports shooter who maybe can't afford Expensive LONG glass would benefit greatly from a high MP camera. YOu could get by with a 70-200 lens instead of a 300 and still have room to crop and make a big image.

I don't think anyone is making any MP argument. It's features. I can almost bet the D800's AF is better than any of Canon's cameras out there. If Canon had a 5D classic with the AF of the D800 I'd be all up on that. It's not the MP's.


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taemo
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Feb 14, 2012 09:59 |  #282

no point for me, as a hobbyist with limited skills my good ol' 5D is more than enough.for those jumping ship, hope you sell your gears for cheap to me :D


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Biker010
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Feb 14, 2012 10:17 as a reply to  @ AzzKicker's post |  #283

Well, as a Nikon shooter, and looking to upgrade my D90, I love everything about this new D800.. Except the 36mp!!
I can't help but think they've gone a bit insane, its a headline grabber absolutely no use to 90% of the people who will be using it.

Everyone's making such a fuss over the 36mp, which I see as a disadvantage since there doesn't seem to be a way to make a 12mp RAW file? But other than this the camera looks amazing. It actually seems to have the complete package, a D700 with improvement to everything, for $3,000!.

If Nikon release a firmware upgrade to give the option of a 12mp RAW file I think I'm going to get one, other wise I might have to save a chunk of cash and root out a D700.

So am I the only one that thinks the biggest sales gimmick, most talked about & most envied feature is the one feature that would stop you buying one?

Looks like the marketing department's taking over the R&D, which can only be a bad thing.


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Feb 14, 2012 10:27 |  #284

Biker010 wrote in post #13895805 (external link)
Well, as a Nikon shooter, and looking to upgrade my D90, I love everything about this new D800.. Except the 36mp!!
I can't help but think they've gone a bit insane, its a headline grabber absolutely no use to 90% of the people who will be using it.

Everyone's making such a fuss over the 36mp, which I see as a disadvantage since there doesn't seem to be a way to make a 12mp RAW file? But other than this the camera looks amazing. It actually seems to have the complete package, a D700 with improvement to everything, for $3,000!.

If Nikon release a firmware upgrade to give the option of a 12mp RAW file I think I'm going to get one, other wise I might have to save a chunk of cash and root out a D700.

So am I the only one that thinks the biggest sales gimmick, most talked about & most envied feature is the one feature that would stop you buying one?

Looks like the marketing department's taking over the R&D, which can only be a bad thing.

Your 100% spot on:cool:


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Feb 14, 2012 10:29 |  #285

So, what's so special about it? I see 36 million pickles. That's 'nice,' if not exactly Earth shattering. The price of the camera, plus top end lenses that have some hope of matching the sensor's resolution, will be steep. Who's supposed to buy this, rich gear dweebs and a few genuine professionals, right? Seriously, why do you presume anyone would want to 'switch' in the first place?


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Who's making the switch to Nikon / D800
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