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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 20 Feb 2012 (Monday) 15:43
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My 7D to 1D mark IV progression

 
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Feb 21, 2012 06:37 |  #16

TeamSpeed wrote in post #13934698 (external link)
Interesting, I did not see that big a difference between the 2, and I shot them in identical conditions side by side on the same events.

ISO 800 is pretty close IMO, and even above that. I saw a bigger difference in sharpness due to the weaker AA/larger sensor. I have shot them both in many sporting events and marching band competitions. I find them to be within 1-1.5 stops of each other. I would love to be able to use 25600 cleanly, thus why I eagerly wait to see what the 1DX brings. (ISO 25600 from the 1D4 at the bottom, good for web sized images)

ISO 6400 sports w/7D
QUOTED IMAGE
QUOTED IMAGE
QUOTED IMAGE

ISO 12800 on the 1D4
QUOTED IMAGE

Nice comparison Teeamspeed.Used properly you can get very useable ISO 12,800 shots out of the 7D.While I don't really like any camera's OOC
j-pegs The 7D can produce some pretty awesome RAW generated shots.


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Feb 21, 2012 11:46 |  #17

Thanks!

Here is a fullsized 100% crop side by side shot at the same exact exposure settings between the 7D and 1D4 at ISO 6400. Low light shot as well, 1/30th at ISO 6400 at f2.8....

You can see how the 1D4 is smoother with less of the black spackling you get on the 7D which requires a bit more post processing.

These were processed identically from raw to JPG.

http://teamspeed.smugm​ug.com …039526&k=xjwgsN​G&lb=1&s=O (external link)


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Feb 21, 2012 12:33 |  #18

Actually, when you reduce image size for web-viewing, you average away the noise. So basically, any camera can produce great high ISO images like the ones you showed. All I can say is that out-of-camera high ISO JPG's from the 7D show very heavy noise reduction and a severe reduction in detail, along with ugly blotches. The MkIV (and 5D-MkII) do much better in that respect. As the ISO goes above 800, the MkIV (and 5D-MkII) pull even further ahead of the 7D. That's not to say the 7D isn't a good camera, it's just that you get what you pay for. The MkIV should be a lot better than the 7D considering the price. Personally, I even prefer files from my old 1D-MkII over the 7D files. If all I were concerned with were images that look good when reduced for web-viewing, I'd be happy with the 7D too.




  
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Feb 21, 2012 12:38 |  #19

TeamSpeed wrote in post #13936482 (external link)
Thanks!

Here is a fullsized 100% crop side by side shot at the same exact exposure settings between the 7D and 1D4 at ISO 6400. Low light shot as well, 1/30th at ISO 6400 at f2.8....

You can see how the 1D4 is smoother with less of the black spackling you get on the 7D which requires a bit more post processing.

These were processed identically from raw to JPG.

http://teamspeed.smugm​ug.com …039526&k=xjwgsN​G&lb=1&s=O (external link)

I have to agree that the 1D4 is a lot better than the 7D. If you reduce the files down for web-viewing you won't see the difference, but for those of us who need the full resolution available it's a big difference.




  
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Feb 21, 2012 13:07 |  #20

jayadeff wrote in post #13936807 (external link)
Actually, when you reduce image size for web-viewing, you average away the noise. So basically, any camera can produce great high ISO images like the ones you showed. All I can say is that out-of-camera high ISO JPG's from the 7D show very heavy noise reduction and a severe reduction in detail, along with ugly blotches. The MkIV (and 5D-MkII) do much better in that respect. As the ISO goes above 800, the MkIV (and 5D-MkII) pull even further ahead of the 7D. That's not to say the 7D isn't a good camera, it's just that you get what you pay for. The MkIV should be a lot better than the 7D considering the price. Personally, I even prefer files from my old 1D-MkII over the 7D files. If all I were concerned with were images that look good when reduced for web-viewing, I'd be happy with the 7D too.

No not any camera can produce great high ISO images even for websized photos.As a 7d owner I KNOW what it can do when used properly and certainly Teamspeed has done ALOT of these comparisons to also know what it can do.It does seem like once you "move up" to a 1D camera you then have to proclaim anything below that sucks,has horrible IQ and is no longer good enough.


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Feb 21, 2012 13:21 |  #21

To illustrate my point about reducing files for web-viewing. I took the oldest digital SLR I had access to, a Nikon D80 with an old-style 10Mp CCD and a cheap kit lens, and took a high ISO image. I set the ISO to H1, which is equivalent to 3200 ISO, and I underexposed by 1-1/2 stops. That's equivalent to somewhere between 6400 and 12800 ISO. I shot in RAW mode and used the RAW exposure compensation in NX2 set to +1-1/2. I then used Photoshop to reduce the noise, reduce the file size by the same amount as the 7D files shown in a previous post here (about 1/6 size), and re-sharpen it. The result is pretty darned impressive considering how old the D80 sensor is, and that it's not even a CMOS sensor.

My point is, showing an image taken at 12800 ISO that's been reduced to a fraction of the original file size, and then making claims about how great the high ISO is on that camera is not a valid argument.


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Feb 21, 2012 13:27 |  #22

canon rookie wrote in post #13937079 (external link)
No not any camera can produce great high ISO images even for websized photos.As a 7d owner I KNOW what it can do when used properly and certainly Teamspeed has done ALOT of these comparisons to also know what it can do.It does seem like once you "move up" to a 1D camera you then have to proclaim anything below that sucks,has horrible IQ and is no longer good enough.

I never said that anything below a 1D "sucks, has horrible IQ and is no longer good enough". I said the 7D is not as good as the MkIV. And that's OK. It's a much less expensive camera (about one quarter the cost?). You get a lot of bang for your buck with the 7D, and it's probably the best APS/DX crop sensor on the market. You get what you pay for. If the 7D is good enough for you, that's great. For some of us it's not.




  
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Feb 21, 2012 15:11 |  #23

jayadeff wrote in post #13936807 (external link)
Actually, when you reduce image size for web-viewing, you average away the noise. So basically, any camera can produce great high ISO images like the ones you showed. All I can say is that out-of-camera high ISO JPG's from the 7D show very heavy noise reduction and a severe reduction in detail, along with ugly blotches. The MkIV (and 5D-MkII) do much better in that respect. As the ISO goes above 800, the MkIV (and 5D-MkII) pull even further ahead of the 7D. That's not to say the 7D isn't a good camera, it's just that you get what you pay for. The MkIV should be a lot better than the 7D considering the price. Personally, I even prefer files from my old 1D-MkII over the 7D files. If all I were concerned with were images that look good when reduced for web-viewing, I'd be happy with the 7D too.

These look pretty darn good sized up too, I only posted the small images per POTN restrictions. The ISO 6400 7D shots will print at 8x10, even a size or 2 larger.

Again, the 2nd post is 100% pixel peeping, which is way more than what I would use to print, so most of what I print would automatically downsize both images.

Perhaps if you ready through my mini-reviews, etc, you will see I almost always post 100% views. You will also see that I am very well versed in the noise characteristics of many of the cameras, how to process them, etc. ;)

I was just addressing your comment that the 7D falls apart past ISO 800, and I have extensive enough experience with it to question why you found that.

At least ISO 3200 should be more than usable on the 7D. But as long as you are happy with the 1D4 that is all that matters. :D

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IMAGE LINK: http://teamspeed.smugm​ug.com …869004&k=svChct​S&lb=1&s=O  (external link)

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Feb 21, 2012 16:11 |  #24

Here is another 7D ISO 6400 sports shot.

IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Sports/Mad-Ants-2011-2012/i-KdwXjQs/0/XL/IMG3760small-XL.jpg

Here is a 100% crop from an 8x10 print size for this image.


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Feb 21, 2012 16:16 |  #25

Now here is the 1D4 at ISO 6400... :D (baaahhhaaaahaaaaa <in an evil laugh>;)

IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Sports/Mad-Ants-Feb-9-2012/i-3kRGbW7/0/X2/BIG0085-X2.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://teamspeed.smugm​ug.com …i-3kRGbW7/0/O/BIG0085.jp​g  (external link)

Then there is ISO 8000...

IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Sports/Mad-Ants-Feb-9-2012/i-L8djkkk/0/XL/BIG9988-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://teamspeed.smugm​ug.com …611508&k=L8djkk​k&lb=1&s=O  (external link)

Or even 12,800... :lol:

IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Sports/Mad-Ants-Feb-9-2012/i-Jts6vx9/0/XL/BIG0034-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://teamspeed.smugm​ug.com …611667&k=Jts6vx​9&lb=1&s=O  (external link)

The 7D can do well if you watch how you use it at the higher ISOs, I just find that the 1D4 is more consistent and therefore, I end up with more keepers.

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Feb 21, 2012 16:29 |  #26

TeamSpeed wrote in post #13938389 (external link)
Now here is the 1D4 at ISO 6400... :D (baaahhhaaaahaaaaa <in an evil laugh>;)

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: http://teamspeed.smugm​ug.com …i-3kRGbW7/0/O/BIG0085.jp​g  (external link)

Most impressive - I cannot image the 1Dx being any better than this - maybe more forgiving of underexposure situations - but this certainly speaks well of the 1D4 as an action camera in poor light. I can think of a whole lot of parents who would love to have this capability in the high school gym...

JH


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Feb 21, 2012 16:41 |  #27

Thank you, it really helps my learning curve now that the local league has issued a press pass for me, I get to walk around the court during the games and they get game shots. I am hoping that if their current photographer gives up the gig, they give me a call. He is shooting with a 7D and 70-200 2.8. He chatted up a bit the first time he saw me around the court perimeter, but the 2nd game, he was just cordial, said hi, then we didn't talk much past that. ;)

The 1D4 does portraits too, but no matter how magical it can be, it doesn't have enough pixie dust to make the subject material always look good. My photoshop skillz are a bit lacking in that department too, so he ended up with what he got! :lol:

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Feb 22, 2012 20:55 |  #28

I took the same exact route. The 1DIV is the only piece of equipment I never had a second thought about.


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Feb 22, 2012 21:36 |  #29

jhoag wrote in post #13938462 (external link)
Most impressive - I cannot image the 1Dx being any better than this - maybe more forgiving of underexposure situations - but this certainly speaks well of the 1D4 as an action camera in poor light. I can think of a whole lot of parents who would love to have this capability in the high school gym...

JH

That would be me for sure. I do love the 7D, but the 1DIV would be my dream camera.


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Feb 23, 2012 12:22 |  #30

I use a MkII and MkIIn for all my sports shooting, but was recently loaned a MkIV by CPS to photograph the U.S. Figure Skating Championships for USFS. I also compared it to a friends 7D at that event. There really was no comparison for me; the MkIV was vastly superior to the 7D. But at four times the cost, it should be. I'll stick to my old dinosaurs for now until I can afford a MkIV.




  
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My 7D to 1D mark IV progression
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