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Thread started 22 Feb 2012 (Wednesday) 20:50
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New 5d $3500I vs d800 $3000

 
stve
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Feb 24, 2012 21:44 |  #61

bps wrote in post #13959165 (external link)
I think it's hilarious that people think they know how the noise levels will compare between a D800 and a 5D MIII, when the 5D MIII hasn't even been announced yet and is nothing more than a rumor.

Bryan

It is speculation of course but if you was betting on a horse race you'd study the form of the horses & make your bet.
Nikon's form regarding high noise is much better than Canon's ever since the D3 came out in 2007.




  
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Sp1207
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Feb 24, 2012 22:07 |  #62

Ricku wrote in post #13948684 (external link)
"only 22mp".. Sigh.

What if the "only 22mp" gives it better image quality, better iso noise, better DR than the D800?

How would fewer megapixels possibly give better DR or ISO performance?

bps wrote in post #13959165 (external link)
I think it's hilarious that people think they know how the noise levels will compare between a D800 and a 5D MIII, when the 5D MIII hasn't even been announced yet and is nothing more than a rumor.

Bryan

You missed the part where that was in context and referring to more megapixels vs. fewer.


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Colorblinded
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Feb 25, 2012 00:09 |  #63

Shadowblade wrote in post #13958247 (external link)
How is it too much? You're not losing any quality over 18MP or 22MP,

It depends on how we define quality, but until Canon's answer arrives we won't know if you get better dynamic range or ISO performance at the cost of lower resolution compared to the D800. I am reserving judgement on the D800 until I look at some better raw samples and there's a comparable modern full frame camera to compare it against.

Sp1207 wrote in post #13962261 (external link)
How would fewer megapixels possibly give better DR or ISO performance?

Fewer megapixels on the same sized sensor means bigger pixels/lower pixel density which in the world of physics means you can expect better dynamic range and better ISO performance. That's assuming all other design parameters and technologies applied in making and designing the sensor are comparable.

Until the 5DIII is announced and until there are images to compare there's really not much more to say.


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woos
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Feb 25, 2012 00:52 |  #64

Colorblinded wrote in post #13962789 (external link)
Fewer megapixels on the same sized sensor means bigger pixels/lower pixel density which in the world of physics means you can expect better dynamic range and better ISO performance. That's assuming all other design parameters and technologies applied in making and designing the sensor are comparable.

Until the 5DIII is announced and until there are images to compare there's really not much more to say.

That's not actually true, that's the problem--it's a myth that has been perpetuated for a long time. Agree 100% on the last part, though.


amanathia.zenfolio.com

  
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stve
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Feb 25, 2012 01:32 |  #65

Colorblinded wrote in post #13962789 (external link)
It depends on how we define quality, but until Canon's answer arrives we won't know if you get better dynamic range or ISO performance at the cost of lower resolution compared to the D800. I am reserving judgement on the D800 until I look at some better raw samples and there's a comparable modern full frame camera to compare it against.

Fewer megapixels on the same sized sensor means bigger pixels/lower pixel density which in the world of physics means you can expect better dynamic range and better ISO performance. That's assuming all other design parameters and technologies applied in making and designing the sensor are comparable.

Until the 5DIII is announced and until there are images to compare there's really not much more to say.

Over at http://www.dxomark.com …/(type)/usecase​_landscape (external link) the 24 MP D3x is rated very highly for it's dynamic range at 13.7 evs
just below the Nikon D7000 at 13.9 evs , by comparison the highest rated Canon for dynamic range is the Canon EOS 1Ds Mark III at 12 evs.
The D3X is also rated higher than the 5DMK2 for noise.




  
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Xalanx
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Feb 25, 2012 01:44 |  #66

stve wrote in post #13963074 (external link)
Over at http://www.dxomark.com​/index.php/Cameras/Cam​era-Sensor-Ratings/(type)/usecase​_landscape (external link) the 24 MP D3x is rated very highly for it's dynamic range at 13.7 evs
just below the Nikon D7000 at 13.9 evs , by comparison the highest rated Canon for dynamic range is the Canon EOS 1Ds Mark III at 12 evs.
The D3X is also rated higher than the 5DMK2 for noise.

dxomark is biased towards nikon, many people noticed that.
Here's a very nice post on their forum http://forum.dxomark.c​om/index.php/topic,667​.0.html (external link)


https://imagerist.pixe​ls.com/ (external link)

  
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RhysPhotograph.Me
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Feb 25, 2012 03:53 |  #67
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^^^
No Canon sensor can touch the D7000 DR, it is simply amazing how much detail you can pull out of shadows and not get banding etc. It's impossible to match what the D7000 can do with any Canon chip


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Shadowblade
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Feb 25, 2012 04:24 |  #68

RhysPhotograph.Me wrote in post #13963317 (external link)
^^^
No Canon sensor can touch the D7000 DR, it is simply amazing how much detail you can pull out of shadows and not get banding etc. It's impossible to match what the D7000 can do with any Canon chip

Totally agree.

If you push the 'black' areas from a D7000 or D3x RAW, you get nice, remarkably noise-free detail.

If you push the 'black' areas from a 5D2, you get a gridlike pattern of luma noise and big chunks of chroma noise.




  
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stve
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Feb 25, 2012 07:48 |  #69

Xalanx wrote in post #13963100 (external link)
dxomark is biased towards nikon, many people noticed that.
Here's a very nice post on their forum http://forum.dxomark.c​om/index.php/topic,667​.0.html (external link)

Guess you didn't read the About section
http://www.dxomark.com​/index.php/About/Senso​r-scores (external link)

Key points about DxOMark Sensor Scores:
All sensor scores reflect only the RAW sensor performance of a camera body. All measurements are performed on the RAW image file BEFORE demosaicing or other processing prior to final image delivery. DxOMark does not address such other important criteria as image signal processing, mechanical robustness, ease of use, flexibility, optics quality, value for money, etc. While RAW sensor performance is critically important, it is not the only factor that should be taken into consideration when choosing a digital camera.

They measure Sensor performance its amazing how Canon cameras can deliver such good quality images from their sensors, the signal might not be as good but they work wonders.
The least competitive area seems to be dynamic range compared to the D3X & D7000.




  
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stve
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Feb 25, 2012 08:02 |  #70

RhysPhotograph.Me wrote in post #13963317 (external link)
^^^
No Canon sensor can touch the D7000 DR, it is simply amazing how much detail you can pull out of shadows and not get banding etc. It's impossible to match what the D7000 can do with any Canon chip

Try shooting something in light low enough that auto ISO picks something like ISO 6400
at 100th sec then switch to manual ISO 100 same shutter speed & aperture the photo will look like you've left the lens cap on open the raw in lightroom & you'll be amazed how you can push the image to the point where the exposure & noise match the iso 6400 image.
Not sure how they do that some kind of black magic ?




  
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RhysPhotograph.Me
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Feb 25, 2012 08:04 |  #71
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^^^
I'v already tested that when I had a D7000, you can get a pretty decent image from literally a black frame, it is really incredible!


Wedding photography (external link)

  
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stve
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Feb 25, 2012 08:17 |  #72

You wouldn't want to shoot six stops under all the time the colour is very hard to adjust but if you've messed up & used the wrong ISO pushing a couple of stops is a lifesaver.




  
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Shadowblade
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Feb 25, 2012 08:24 |  #73

stve wrote in post #13963822 (external link)
You wouldn't want to shoot six stops under all the time the colour is very hard to adjust but if you've messed up & used the wrong ISO pushing a couple of stops is a lifesaver.



It's not about fixing poorly-exposed shots. It's about properly-exposed shots, which just happen to have a very high dynamic range.




  
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RhysPhotograph.Me
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Feb 25, 2012 08:31 |  #74
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^^^
It's almost like HDR in a single frame!


Wedding photography (external link)

  
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Colorblinded
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Feb 25, 2012 09:17 |  #75

woos wrote in post #13962971 (external link)
That's not actually true, that's the problem--it's a myth that has been perpetuated for a long time. Agree 100% on the last part, though.

It's not a myth, the problem is that reality is a lot more complicated. Sensor designs can have a big impact on final performance, that's why I specifically said "That's assuming all other design parameters and technologies applied in making and designing the sensor are comparable."

It's also why I said "Until the 5DIII is announced and until there are images to compare there's really not much more to say." Until then we won't know what we're comparing against and we won't know if Canon is ahead in the game, matching Nikon (or Sony's sensor) or behind. If they flub the design on their sensor and wind up with worse raw noise and dynamic range then they'll have made mistakes so bad that it makes up for the physical advantage the larger-per-pixel rumored 22mp sensor should have.

I don't take much stock in DxO mark's tests, regardless, but thems the facts, physically.


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