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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 26 Feb 2012 (Sunday) 10:42
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Not another 60D Versus 7D Thread

 
viperbass
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Feb 26, 2012 10:42 |  #1

I just found this site and immediately registered. Here's my background.

Age 58. Retiring in ~ 4 years and want to pursue photography.

Current camera's - Canon G9 and a 35MM Canon Elan II (not used much anymore)

We do a fair amount of traveling. Absolutely love landscape photography. Also enjoy low light photography and enjoy indoor photography w/o flash. Purchased my G9 for a trip to Italy in '08.

My current love is composition. Not currently into many technical issues. Use the G9 point & shoot capabilities much more than manual photography. However when I retire, I would love to become a more technical advanced shooter. Really not into movies, so they are not a big issues in my decision.

I do like the 7D build quality, but I do take care of things I own so the 60D will be well taken care of.

Do I follow my instincts and purchase the 60D now and slowly build my photography background until I retire, then upgrade to the next level?

Or

Jump right to a 7D hoping no technology leap frogs so the 7D can be my main camera for many many years.
While I am inherently cheap, I can afford either camera.

Decisions decisions. Comments welcomed.




  
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stlouis_26
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Feb 26, 2012 10:50 |  #2

I own the 7d but 95% of my photography is wildlife and sports so it was the logical choice. If I was going to do people and landscapes I would have gone with the 5d II. I really don't know that much about the Canon 60 but I am sure it would be fine as well. In four years no telling what we will be using for photos.




  
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BrickR
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Feb 26, 2012 12:03 |  #3

Of course technology will leap frog but its not like whatever camera you get will suddenly stop taking nice pictures. I agree with stlouis, the 5dii would be great for what you want to do. The 60d and 7d have the same sensor so you have to decide if you want/need the features of the 7d. It doesn't sound like it.
Either camera will serve you well for years to come.
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amfoto1
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Feb 26, 2012 12:19 |  #4

For what you want to shoot 60D would be just fine. You don't need to spend the extra for 7D features... many of which are action/sports related. Instead, put more money into good lenses to use on a 60D. That will give you more benefits, for what you want to shoot.

Yes, a 5DII might be the "ultimate"... but perhaps not if you want to travel with your gear. A full frame camera and lens kit are necessarily larger and heavier.

You may or may not need or want to upgrade in 4 years. That's about two generations in DSLR development cycles, so you will see distinctly different offerings by then. So I'd just get started with a 60D now, build up a good, solid lens kit that's as much as possible usable on both full frame and crop cameras, just in case you want to go full frame. Lenses are a much, much longer term investment than the camera used behind them. I switched to Canon in 2001 and still use three out of the four lenses I bought initially, have added quite a few more pretty selectively, so had very little need to swap around and "upgrade" lenses. In the meantime, the lenses have been used on film cameras and then, since 2004, on at least four different generations of DSLRs. Same lenses, while cameras come and go every two or three years at most.

The only piece of gear I can think of that's more of a long-term investment than my lenses has been tripods. One I still use is 30+ years old and still working just fine.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII(x2), 7D(x2) & other cameras. 10-22mm, Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5 Macro, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS (x2), 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, studio strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link) - ZENFOLIO (external link)

  
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Keyan
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Feb 26, 2012 13:34 |  #5

Get the 60D is my suggestion. I love mine. Use the money you save towards lenses and a flash gun, like the 430 EX II, those will have a far greater impact on your photography than the 7D alone will.

If you are really set on indoor w/o flash look at the wide aperture primes like the 50mm or the 28-35 range of prime lenses, or if you still want some range one of the constant aperture standard zooms, like the 17-50 f/2.8 from Tamron or Sigma or the ultimate Canon EF-S standard zoom, the 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM.


Cameras: 7D2, S100
Lenses: 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM, 18-135 STM, 24-70 f/4L IS USM, 50 f/1.4 USM,70-300L IS USM
Other Stuff: 430 EX II, Luma Labs Loop 3, CamRanger

  
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Keyan
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Feb 26, 2012 13:37 |  #6

Also, the 7D is getting older, it has been around since 2009, so if you buy one now the next generation will be out sooner rather than later.


Cameras: 7D2, S100
Lenses: 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM, 18-135 STM, 24-70 f/4L IS USM, 50 f/1.4 USM,70-300L IS USM
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talbot_sunbeam
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Feb 26, 2012 14:04 |  #7

I think the 60D would probably be the better camera for your needs.



7D, 450D | 17-55, 10-22, 55-250, 50 1.8, 580EXII | YN568II | YN622 x3 | Magic Lantern | (Still) Jonesing for a 70-200 2.8...
Turns out a gripped 7D + 622 + 580exII + 70-200 2.8 IS MK2 is BLOODY HEAVY! Who knew?!!

  
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jhayesvw
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Feb 26, 2012 23:25 as a reply to  @ talbot_sunbeam's post |  #8

go for the 60d
I like mine alot.

as for the "build quality" there is a thread on this forum from today about a guys week old 5d2 falling off his table, it shattered the body in multiple places. That is very unlikely to happen with a composite body.



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mwsilver
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Feb 27, 2012 00:56 |  #9

jhayesvw wrote in post #13973594 (external link)
go for the 60d
I like mine alot.

as for the "build quality" there is a thread on this forum from today about a guys week old 5d2 falling off his table, it shattered the body in multiple places. That is very unlikely to happen with a composite body.

Yeah just saw that myself. I think it was an older 5D rather than 5D MII but that's insignificant. Many still prefer the magnesium body of the higher end cameras and believe that the mag bodies have a more robust build. However,I've seen a number of photos of bruised, scarred and cracked magnesium bodies, but have yet to see one posted of a cracked poly-carbonate and fiber glass body.

Here is a video link from Digital Rev TV where thy are testing extreme treatment of a Canon EOS 400D and a Nikon D70, both with poly-carbonate bodies. The clips title implies its a test between the 550D and the D90, but that's not the case. Its starts slow so be patient. Its amazing how much torture these bodies took and the relatively small amount of damage to them that resulted. I wonder if a magnesium body, any magnesium body, would have done as well.

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=D1tTBncIsm8 (external link)


Mark
Canon 7D2, 60D, T3i, T2i, Sigma 18-35 f/1.8, 30 f/1.4. Canon EF 70-200 L f/4 IS, EF 35 f/2 IS, EFs 10-18 STM, EFs 15-85, EFs 18-200, EF 50 f/1.8 STM, Tamron 18-270 PZD, B+W MRC CPL, Canon 320EX, Vanguard Alta Pro 254CT & SBH 250 head. RODE Stereo Videomic Pro, DXO PhotoLab Elite, ON1

  
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KenjiS
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Feb 27, 2012 01:34 as a reply to  @ mwsilver's post |  #10

maybe wait a week or two before your purchase, the rumor mill is saying the 5DII is going to drop in price very heavily, Possibly around the $2000 level for a new one

You could get a used 5DII for around the cost of a 7D if thats true, Then just find yourself something like a 17-40L for landscapes


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Tzetsin
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Feb 27, 2012 02:26 |  #11

I've got all three of those cameras. I started with the 60D, then the 5Dmk2 and because niether one of those seemed to be able to pull off everything i needed, I bought the 7D.

you've said you plan on doing low light and landscapes. Most people will point you at the 5Dmkii, and while they arn't wrong, those are definitely that camera's strengths, I just can't bring myself to recomend it.

the 60D has the better ISO of the 7D and 60D, contrary to popular belief. But its nothing compared to the 5Dmkii. The big problem with the 5D is the AF. The 5D auto focus problem has been beaten to death, but the fact that its been such a hot topic should at least prove that it is a valid problem. The fact is that the AF on the 5Dmkii is perfectly ok for portraits and landscapes. Both "static" images. If you use the 5D for anything that actually moves, or has a shallower depth of field than 2.8 your going to be hit or miss on sharp images. Miss more than hit really.

Its been my experience that in anything other than very/extreme low light the image quality difference between the 5, 7 and 60D is negligible. Obviously you'll be able to "blow up" the images of the 5dmkii more, but any of the three will make an image @ 13x19 with no problem at all, which is more than most people need already.

When you look at those three cameras and instead of looking at what they can do, I think its important to look at what they CANNOT do.

I'd say that the 60D and even less so the 7D can't shoot handheld in very low light, without flash, without pushing the ISO into some pretty iffy levels. Depending on the use of the image, I would say that ISO 640 is the limit. Obviously others will disagree, and I've talked to wedding photographers that claim to comfortably use 1600 ISO shooting weddings with them, so your mileage may vary.

The 5Dmkii is obviously the most capable camera to shoot handheld in low light, but that doesnt mean it does it well. The AF system works poorly in low light, though it doesnt have any more difficulty than normal until very low light. Unless the target is moving, at which point the AF system becomes a little hit and miss. Again, more miss than hit.

The 5Dmkii cannot shoot moving targets. I'm sure there will be a bazillion people here that will decry that statement, for those, go grab a 7D (or a 60D even) and see what it really means to be able to shoot a moving target. Its well known that the 5D was never meant to shoot action, but they could have done a lot better than the bare minimum.

The 7D can do pretty much everything "well" but excels at AF and speed. The ISO performance is the worst of the 3, but not game stopping bad, even at 1600. Yes, I know I said 640 was the limit, but that is the limit "I" impose on the camera for production quality images. You could use 1600 pretty comfortably for home and frivolous images, as long as you use noise reduction software in your post workflow.

The 60D is pretty much middle ground between the two. For video and tripod work, this is my go to camera. The articulating screen is LOVE. the ISO performance is better than the 7D and worse than the 5D. The AF system is much much better than the 5D, but nothing compared to the 7D. The frame rate is much better than the 5Dmkii, but much worse than the 7D. There is nothing the 60D can really do that the 7D can't do a lot better really. Even the difference in ISO is negligible once noise reduction software is used.

Of the 3, if I could only have 1, the 7D would be the hands down winner. I shoot a variety of subjects including portrait and landscape and I find the 7D can handle it all. I do use the 5D for portraiture and landscapes, mostly because it does do a better job, but I wouldnt really miss it if it was gone.

The 5D mkiii is rumered to be around the corner, I would advise you to get the 7D and later, when the new 5D comes out, see if it isn't more your style.


Canon camera, Canon lenses.

  
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skygod44
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Feb 27, 2012 02:40 as a reply to  @ Tzetsin's post |  #12

Hi there!

It's an interesting time to be coming to the bigger bodies, from P&S.

The reason is, that "mirrorless" bodies that resemble dSLRs are beginning to make sense.

I tested out a Sony Alpha77 last Thursday, and I have to say, "wow!".

I wouldn't buy one yet, because I want to look through a viewfinder and see what the lens is seeing, without any slurring of the image. The technology isn't quite there yet.

But it will be.

And Canon are soon(ish) to release the C300 SLT camera body (for silly money) mainly aimed at pro videographers....but the tech will come to our bodies in time.

The mirror, flapping around in the body is one of the main components which slows cameras down, and/or requires serious engineering to deal with. Get rid of that, and the potential for high resolution, full-frame, fast frame-rate photography will be yours.

So, my advice is to try out the Sony. If you don't have money invested in expensive lenses yet, it's certainly a good time to make sure of ALL your options.

Regards,
Simon
[Who DOES have a lot of money invested in Canon lenses, so hopes they bring us an SLT body within the next 3~5 years!]
:confused:


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kent ­ andersen
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Feb 27, 2012 03:18 |  #13

Seems like you are a person that will invest alot into youre hobby.

the part of the camera that makes the biggest difference is not the body, but the lens attached to it. Lenses keeps the value for years, cameras drop their value much much quicker. Since you are a beginner, you will probably not gain much from the advantage of a 5d or 7d in the first year. In a week or so, a new 5d will probably be there, and in a year or two both 7D and 60D will be changed with something hopefully bether. I would therefore spend as little money as possible on the camera untill you have learned the game, and spend as much as I could afford on good lenses instead.

A 7D will only have a great AF if you have a good lens attached to it.

So my advice would be to buy a 60D, wich will be working excelent for 95% of youre need, and use just as much money on a good lens. In a year or two when you start to experience the limitations of 60D, then you will probably buy something else. But then the alternatives will be something totaly different thatn 7D and 60D. If you buy a good lens now, you will still keep that one when the new body turns out, or if you sell it, it will probably have kept the value.


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mickeyb105
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Feb 27, 2012 07:48 |  #14

mwsilver wrote in post #13973920 (external link)
Yeah just saw that myself. I think it was an older 5D rather than 5D MII but that's insignificant.

Not to split hairs, but it was a brand new 5Dii.


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mwsilver
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Feb 27, 2012 08:42 |  #15

mickeyb105 wrote in post #13975096 (external link)
Not to split hairs, but it was a brand new 5Dii.

Oops I screwed up. The photo cut off just as the corner of the Mark II badge was coming in to view. I missed it and jumped to conclusions. As I stated above though, it still makes me a bit wary that mag bodies are as robust as many folks claim. I haven't seen any pictures of that much damage from a poly-carbonate body taking a fall off a table. Having said that though, when I was buying my 60D I would have opted for the 7D if I could have reconciled spending the significant (for me) extra money.


Mark
Canon 7D2, 60D, T3i, T2i, Sigma 18-35 f/1.8, 30 f/1.4. Canon EF 70-200 L f/4 IS, EF 35 f/2 IS, EFs 10-18 STM, EFs 15-85, EFs 18-200, EF 50 f/1.8 STM, Tamron 18-270 PZD, B+W MRC CPL, Canon 320EX, Vanguard Alta Pro 254CT & SBH 250 head. RODE Stereo Videomic Pro, DXO PhotoLab Elite, ON1

  
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