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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Mar 2012 (Monday) 16:43
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Auto ISO on 5D3

 
John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 05, 2012 18:27 |  #16

Tony_Stark wrote in post #14030474 (external link)
But this seems to defeat the purpose of manual mode :confused:

Choosing shutter speed and aperture is "manual mode".

A camera could exist that let you select these two parameters, but has no ISO at all, and you just move a slider later on and make it as bright as you want it. ISO is only there because of historical shortcomings of recording media. It is not a significant photographic parameter.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 05, 2012 18:34 |  #17

Invertalon wrote in post #14030699 (external link)
Not a BIG deal, but seems like something that would be easy enough to implement without any cost or R&D...

Few things are as trivial as implementing this could be. The cameras almost do it already; it is just blocked. Put manual aperture lens on the camera, and put it in Tv-priority with auto-ISO ... guess what ... the ISO floats, and the EC actually works ... go figure.

The other really sad part about Canon auto-ISO is that if you want to use fill flash, guess what, you can't, because "auto-ISO" becomes ISO 400.

I really wish that Nikon or Pentax would start making bodies for Canon lenses ... I am so sick of Canon and their primitive, ignorant approaches to photography.




  
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JeffreyG
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Mar 05, 2012 20:16 |  #18

Brian_R wrote in post #14030182 (external link)
if your in manual mode why do auto ISO just switch to aperture or shutter priority. i dont know of any situation where you would pick your shutter and aperture and need ISO to be in auto because you dont know what setting or just need it in auto because of varying conditions

I know what the OP is on about, because this is how the 1D4 works. Canon is slowly moving towards an acknowledgement that these are not film cameras.

Think like this:

Av is really Aperture and ISO priority mode.
TV is really Shutter and ISO priority mode.

So the camera is missing a mode. Where is Aperture and Shutter priority mode?

On the 1D4, you set the camera in M mode and then put the ISO setting to auto. The camera operates in Aperture and Shutter Priority Mode, with two defects:
1) No exposure compensation
2) Doesn't work right with a flash attached.

Once you use Aperture and Shutter Priority Mode you will stop using Av or Tv, because you will realize that they both suck. Of the three variables, ISO is usually the least important to a photo by far. If you are letting the camera meter pick your exposure, you want the meter picking the variable you care about the least.


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hyolee
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Mar 05, 2012 21:47 as a reply to  @ JeffreyG's post |  #19

Current Canon cameras don't do #2 and #3 right, but just curious, do the recent Nikon cameras fare better here?

2. What is the behavior of auto ISO when flash is attached in aperture priority. I hope it meters for the ambient.
3. What is the behavior of auto ISO when flash is attached in manual mode? I hope it chooses the lowest ISO for proper flash exposure.




  
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Mar 05, 2012 22:00 |  #20

According to a wedding photographer over on FredMiranda that was able to test out the 5D3 and 1Dx stated that there still is no EC for manual mode with auto-ISO.


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hyolee
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Mar 06, 2012 05:29 |  #21

Just noticed this:
http://www.usa.canon.c​om …d_mark_iii#Spec​ifications (external link)

With Flash: ISO 400 fixed∗
∗If fill flash will result in overexposure, minimum ISO 100 is set.
∗For bounce flash, ISO 400-1600 is set automatically depending on the light level.

Yuck.

It also sounds like the minimum shutter speed is crippled as well, since you're restricted to 1/250 to 1s:

In the P and Av shooting modes with Auto ISO set, the ISO speed is set automatically so that a shutter speed slower than the one set with [Minimum shutter speed] (1/250, 1/125, 1/60, 1/30, 1/15, 1/8, 1/4, 0"5, 1") is not set.




  
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gnirtS
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Mar 06, 2012 05:39 |  #22

Brian_R wrote in post #14030182 (external link)
if your in manual mode why do auto ISO just switch to aperture or shutter priority. i dont know of any situation where you would pick your shutter and aperture and need ISO to be in auto because you dont know what setting or just need it in auto because of varying conditions

Very handy in sport where you want to set a fixed shutter speed and a fixed aperture but have changing lighting conditions.
If conditions are bad set the minimum acceptable shutter, lock lens to wide open and it'll adjust the ISO to the correct exposure. Or if trying to get the best from a lens, set the shutter, set the sweet spot aperture and let auto ISO handle the exposure rather than have apertures jumping around all over the place on Tv (or shutter speeds on Av)
Its working far better for me than AV wide open and a fixed ISO where i end up with high shutter speeds and a high ISO so noisy when not needed etc.
Its a good feature.

Exposure compensation in manual would make sense from that too - its 2 lines of software.


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Mar 06, 2012 05:54 |  #23

It's more than 2 lines of software, considering that the EC meter becomes a light meter in M, so these two lines would have to 1) allow a user to set EC, but the dial is already being used and 2) the light meter would become an EC meter, not giving the user any indication of what the camera thinks of your settings.

Instead of hacking the camera to pieces to do this, it would be better to have a dedicated ISO priority mode (Iv), where you set aperture and shutter, and ISO is automatic with settings that you can control whether you want 1/3, 1/2 or whole stops, the min and max values, and then EC can work as intended in that mode.


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ohata0
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Mar 06, 2012 06:13 |  #24

gnirtS wrote in post #14034016 (external link)
Exposure compensation in manual would make sense from that too - its 2 lines of software.

I'm sure it's more than 2 lines of code in software. Exposure compensation is normally done by the rear dial. In manual mode, that controls the aperture. So how exactly to do you control EC in manual mode? I'm guessing that some button needs to be added first, at least w/ the non 1D series cameras. After they add the button though, then I'm sure it wouldn't be too much code. Obviously, exposure compensation should only activate in manual mode if auto-iso is selected. Hmm...I suppose you could do it in the Q menu, but that's a little awkward.

Like teamspeed said, they could just create a separate mode that handles M w/ auto iso, if they don't want to complicate M mode...it'll probably be easier to use/understand if it's separated.

To me it seems a weird to have a button dedicated to exposure compensation when you already have the rear dial, but they have it on the 1D series cameras, so I guess it must not be that weird.




  
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Mar 06, 2012 07:37 |  #25

Invertalon wrote in post #14030457 (external link)
I thought I read somewhere there is NO exposure comp in manual mode, sadly..

Why the heck would you want EC in manual mode when you have the back wheel or front controller to bump the shutter or aperture up or down WITHOUT having to press an EC button first. It's so much easier to deal with the way it is now, just count your wheel clicks.


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Mar 06, 2012 08:11 |  #26

bsmotril wrote in post #14034316 (external link)
Why the heck would you want EC in manual mode when you have the back wheel or front controller to bump the shutter or aperture up or down WITHOUT having to press an EC button first. It's so much easier to deal with the way it is now, just count your wheel clicks.

Because in auto ISO, it isn't manual mode any more.

That's the real fix. Canon needs to add a new mode for aperture and shutter priority that works just like av and tv for EC and with flash.


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John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 06, 2012 09:22 |  #27

hyolee wrote in post #14032363 (external link)
3. What is the behavior of auto ISO when flash is attached in manual mode? I hope it chooses the lowest ISO for proper flash exposure.

Why would you want to lose the ability of fill flash in manual exposure (Tv/Av priority)?

All-flash is sickly looking in many environments, where you can't diffuse it. People need a way to maintain metering purely for ambient in all modes of operation, even if it is with a custom function.

I use "M" with auto-ISO on my 7D for birds. Av-pri is out of the question, except in bold sunlight with no chance of shade - I watch so many people use Av-pri, take a long burst of shots, and can't find a single one that is any good when they review the burst. I want to smash the camera when I forget that it resorts to ISO 400 when I enable the flash, which is likely to happen just when the perfect opportunity arises, and what I often get is a black image except for bright specular areas where the leaves and birds are glossy, and of course, the bird's retinas in baby blue.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 06, 2012 09:26 |  #28

TeamSpeed wrote in post #14032457 (external link)
According to a wedding photographer over on FredMiranda that was able to test out the 5D3 and 1Dx stated that there still is no EC for manual mode with auto-ISO.

At high ISOs, the solution I use with my 7D is HTP. If you're shooting RAW, and the ISO is running high, there is no noise penalty, because you are in the linear range of read noise vs ISO, and your noise is determined almost strictly by the lighting, and your Av and Tv settings. The problem is, however, that when you get into better light, HTP will cause shadow noise at low ISOs.




  
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Mar 06, 2012 09:34 |  #29

Invertalon wrote in post #14030457 (external link)
I thought I read somewhere there is NO exposure comp in manual mode, sadly...

I have been hoping for that forever... Sometimes I want to set both aperture and shutter speed, leaving ISO to do whatever it needs in drastic lighting changes to get proper exposure. But sometimes the meter underexposes so you want EC to bump up a bit (or down). Balancing what your trying to achieve.

I hope for this also.
And it won't be called manual but Iv mode.


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John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 06, 2012 09:42 |  #30

TeamSpeed wrote in post #14034059 (external link)
Instead of hacking the camera to pieces to do this, it would be better to have a dedicated ISO priority mode (Iv), where you set aperture and shutter, and ISO is automatic with settings that you can control whether you want 1/3, 1/2 or whole stops, the min and max values, and then EC can work as intended in that mode.

"ISO priority" we already have. It's called "P" mode. The user prioritizes the ISO, and the camera selects Av and Tv.

TAv-priority is more like what we are talking about.

Personally, I have no use for the immediate selection of Av values. That's something I do *once* when I put on a lens, and rarely afterward. I could live with TAv priority working just like Tv-priority, with aperture selected by buttons, instead of a dial as in current "M" mode. The camera could warn if over-exposure was likely, or even have a custom function to let shutter speed rise above the selected one if necessary.

Heck, I wouldn't mind if aperture was still selected on the lens; that makes things much simpler when using adapters!




  
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